I've had a bit of a saga with fitting new tyres on the 6J alloys. I purchased a set of 185 HR14 Blockleys (equates to 185/80 R14 according to them), their spec' states a maximum 6" rim width and specifically say these are ideal for E3/E9. So I had a mobile fitter come around in December and he couldn't achieve a seal as the tyre beads are so far collapsed to the centre that they won't push out onto the rim to effect a seal. He tried the usual methods, bead blaster and igniting ether but nothing worked. So I bought a cheap set of inner tubes purely to expand the beads out and allow them to sit for a couple of weeks to hopefully "relax" the walls making it easier for them to be aired out onto the rims. So the fitter came back today and they were exactly the same as before. So I gave in and just had him fit them with the tubes. My question is, these are tubeless tyres on tubeless rims, is it unsafe using them with tubes fitted ?.
Tubes In Tubeless Tyres
- Thread starter E3_UK
- Start date
I put a tube into one of my alloy rims like yours because it has a slight crack and I was getting ready to move off of Maui and had no other spare. I expect it will get little use so no worries there.
My parents had several British cars with wire wheels so of course those tires had tubes. My father was an early adopter of Michelin radials, to the exclusion of all other types on his cars, so I feel sure he had radials on those wheels with tubes as well. I do remember that it was typical to add some talcum powder to the inside of the tires to help the tubes readjust themselves as necessary with less friction. I suppose if you were on a race track or liked to make a weekend of spirited driving, there could be some heating issues, but car tires have had tubes for longer than they have been tubeless, however, a quick net search found this about tubes specifically designed for radial tires:
Inner tubes designed specifically for radial car tires are constructed from specialized, durable rubber to accommodate the increased flexing of radial sidewalls, often resisting heat better than bias tubes. While many mechanics advise against using tubes in modern radial tires due to potential heat buildup at high speeds, they are suitable for vintage, spoked, or damaged wheels.
Key Considerations for Radial Inner Tubes:
My parents had several British cars with wire wheels so of course those tires had tubes. My father was an early adopter of Michelin radials, to the exclusion of all other types on his cars, so I feel sure he had radials on those wheels with tubes as well. I do remember that it was typical to add some talcum powder to the inside of the tires to help the tubes readjust themselves as necessary with less friction. I suppose if you were on a race track or liked to make a weekend of spirited driving, there could be some heating issues, but car tires have had tubes for longer than they have been tubeless, however, a quick net search found this about tubes specifically designed for radial tires:
Inner tubes designed specifically for radial car tires are constructed from specialized, durable rubber to accommodate the increased flexing of radial sidewalls, often resisting heat better than bias tubes. While many mechanics advise against using tubes in modern radial tires due to potential heat buildup at high speeds, they are suitable for vintage, spoked, or damaged wheels.
Key Considerations for Radial Inner Tubes:
- Compatibility: Always use a designated "radial" inner tube. Using a bias-ply tube in a radial tire can lead to excessive friction, heat build-up, and failure.
- Material: Radial tubes are usually made from high-quality butyl rubber for better heat resistance and air retention.
- Usage: They are often used in wire-spoke wheels or to extend the life of tubeless radials with minor leaks.
- Safety: Ensure the tube is properly installed to avoid pinching, and clean any paper/plastic stickers from the inside of the tire before installation.
Thanks. I do currently have tubes fitted on my Mini (10" x 5" rims) but only because the wheels are period items from the 60's and were designed to be used with tubes. The tubes I bought are definitely not bias-ply but neither are they particularly great quality as I never intended them to be fitted, only used to expand the tyres. They were however bought from a reputable source who generally sell tubes to the classic car market so I think they will be ok. I am annoyed however at the difficulty in getting the tyres to seat on rims that the manufacturer actually states they are suitable for. Having contacted them they just say that they can be a difficult fit but if I'm not happy I can return them, which is a great help when they're already fitted.
www.blockleytyre.com
185 R 14 Radial Tyre by Blockley
nashvillecat
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 126
- Reaction score
- 11
You may find this previously posted link of interest. https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/cl...0NzE0NTIkbzEkZzAkdDE3Njk0NzE0NTIkajYwJGwwJGgw
Evidently, the primary concern is with tube use in low profile tires.
I vaguely recall that there were three drawbacks to tube use in a tubeless tire. Reduced speed rating; additional heat, if the tire carcass innards are rough/not smooth and potential increased weight versus standard tubeless or standard tube type.
From the same longstone link:
Evidently, the primary concern is with tube use in low profile tires.
I vaguely recall that there were three drawbacks to tube use in a tubeless tire. Reduced speed rating; additional heat, if the tire carcass innards are rough/not smooth and potential increased weight versus standard tubeless or standard tube type.
From the same longstone link:
jmackro
Well-Known Member
Did all four wheels fail to seal? It just seems surprising that your 185/80 R14 Blockeys would be too wide (*) for stock e9 wheels, since that is the original size tire for these cars
*) I presume that "the tyre beads are so far collapsed" means that your tires need a wider rim to address the rim edge properly.
*) I presume that "the tyre beads are so far collapsed" means that your tires need a wider rim to address the rim edge properly.
175/80 and 195/70 are the original sizes. Are those tires not made for an H2 rim?
Maybe try again after a while (after using the tires a bit with the tubes installed) to see if the tires are now more amenable to being mounted properly.
Yeah - it is odd that an OE size tire would not want to fit....
Yeah - it is odd that an OE size tire would not want to fit....
nashvillecat
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 126
- Reaction score
- 11
Sidestepping your tire tube question, your problem is not that uncommon on farm/tractor equipment. Have you tried one or more strap wrenches (or similar) around the circumference of the tire - to force the sidewalls outward? Here is a video that may illustrate the concept.
It's the opposite. The beads are so far inboard of the sealing surface that it is impossible to achieve any seal to enable them to move up onto the rims.
They are stated as suitable for E3 & E9 OEM wheels.
I tried a ratchet strap on the spare and it made no difference. For this to work the bead needs to at least be in contact with the sealing surface. On these there is at least an inch clearance so it's impossible to achieve a seal. I am experimenting with a method I saw using a bicycle inner tube to bridge the gap and this worked, unfortunately the tube became trapped when the bead popped onto the rim so I had to deflate the tyre to remove it and it dropped back off the rim. I'll keep trying with this and if successful will have the tubes removed and repeat on the rest of the wheels.
Last edited:
Perhaps but I have my doubts. They sat for two weeks expanded out to match the rim width and it made no difference.
Great Forum. You get so much Information for your e9. In this case tubeless or Not
jmackro
Well-Known Member
OK, now I understand your situation (the photos helped), but I certainly don't have the answer. It seems that your Blockey tires are just shaped improperly when not pressurized.
Has anyone else besides your mobile fitter attempted to get them to seal? I wonder if he knows all the tricks, has all the equipment for situations like this.
I've tried two different fitters. Unfortunately both were relatively young and probably only used to fitting modern tyres with much lower profile and hence not likely to collapse inwards as these do with the tall flexible sidewalls. If I knew an old school fitter I'm sure they would be able to get them onto the rims but I've spent enough now trying to have them fitted so I'll probably just leave them. The photo below shows how far the bead is off the rim. You can see how concave the sidewall is due to the height and flexibility. There's nothing "wrong" with them according to Blockley, it's just a result of the design.
Pittraider18
Well-Known Member
In addition to what you had done with the tubes when you had inflated them to expand the sidewalls out, I do not believe that the tubes themselves would be rigid enough on their own to actually make the sidewalls conform to a new shape. I've had luck over the years wedging wood blocks between the beads and forcing them wider and having them sit for a week or so to conform to their new shape. Here is an example I found on google.
Thanks. I did consider doing this but the tubes very easily push the beads out to the rim width. In reality the walls are very flexible, you can pull them apart to the rim width quite easily by hand so it isn't the fact that they're too stiff, in fact probably the opposite, they are so flexible that they don't hold shape they just collapse inwards when released. You can see on the photo with the inflated tube that the sidewall is actually ballooned out and that's with only about 10psi in the tube. Obviously once on the rim it doesn't balloon like this as it is constrained but it does demonstrate the flexibility of the sidewall. The trick using bicycle tubes to bridge the gap does work, I just can't get it to seal where the valve is (on the bicycle tube that is) as it necks inwards and creates a hollow. I managed it partially yesterday but the tube got jammed between the tyre and the rim. I guess I can keep experimenting with the spare tyre. If I can figure out a repeatable method I'll possibly remove the tubes from the car but at the moment I'm rapidly losing interest
