turn signal and dip switch restored

autokunst

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Hello all - I am having trouble finding original part numbers for the turn signal switch and "dip" switch. I just pulled these from my April 1973 US 3.0CS. I think these are salvageable - but I'd like to confirm or deny if they are original to the car.
20180706-dip switch.jpg
20180706-turn signal switch.jpg

An interesting side bar - someone had switched them around so the turn indicator/washer switch was on the left. I knew the car "should have" had this switch on the right. And when I saw that the text was upside down in that position, I realized someone just flipped them around to be more "US normal". I am switching it back to the original location.

Another side bar. What does "dip" stand for???
 

rsporsche

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Stephen, please post a picture of the plug of the turn signal. typically if somebody has reversed the original type they have to reverse the wires at the plug. i will dig out some of the different switches that i have and take detailed pictures of each of them ... for comparative purposes
 

autokunst

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Hi Scott. Good timing as I was just cleaning up the turn signal switch. But I am a bit befuddled as to what wiring would need switching. :confused:As far as the turn signal goes, left will still be counterclockwise and right will be clockwise regardless of which side of the column the arm is on (I think). Here are some picks of the turn signal arm and connections "mid'cleaning". I look forward to comparing to other switches.
20180707-ts switch back.jpg 20180707-ts switch connections.jpg 20180707-ts wire loom.jpg 20180707-ts plug 1.jpg 20180707-ts plug 2.jpg 20180707-ts plug 3.jpg
 

rsporsche

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Stephen, i have looked at my switches ... i actually have 6 pre '74 and one '74 ... and the one that you have matches 4 of them. one of them is 1352 958 ... 8157 the other is 1350 152 ... 8157 / 01. the 1350 152 switch has a center wire that is green ... the 1352 958 has a purple center wire - good chance is these two switches are for something else

of the 1355 284 switches - they all are 8157 / 21 as yours is. the wiring on the back of the switch is also exactly as yours is.

inside the connector are the pin numbers and these are the wires from those pins ... so you can verify that none have been reversed to place the switch on the other side.
pin 1 - gray / blue
pin 2 - gray / black
pin 3 -gray / green
pin 4 - black
pin 5 - green / black
pin 6 - brown / black
pin 7 - yellow / green
pin 8 - blue / red
pin 9 - blue / black
 

autokunst

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Hi Scott. First off, I have to say I have a bit of turn signal arm hoarding envy - how did you end up with SIX. Nevermind that. Thanks for checking - sounds like my part matches the odds, and I am taking that as evidence that it is the original part to the car. And the wiring at my connector are identical to your list with one exception: my pin 7 us a green / yellow rather than a yellow / green. But everything is in the the same positions as your (4) examples. Thanks again!!!
 

rsporsche

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hey Stephen ... i have NO idea how i ended up with 6 spares and a new one on the coupe. i know one of mine came apart while using it ... so i got the new one. when i was digging them out of the electrical bin is when i found 4 correct, 2 unknown and the '74. i thought for a while of putting the '74 on ... until i realized that i had to rewire everything ... and get a '74 dip switch. who knows maybe i will do that one day

turn switch 74.jpg
turn switch 74a.jpg
turn switch 74b.jpg
 

autokunst

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Thanks to everyone who contributed to helping me determine if these switches were original to the car. I now am confident they are. I had to wait for the "right" tool and correct terminals to correctly re-wire the dip switch. But once everything arrived, it was smooth sailing. Wow - what a difference having the right tool for the job makes. Here are some pics of the final controls, ready to re-install in the car.

Here's the turn signal switch, dip switch, and headlight switch, all cleaned up and ready.
20180909-rewired controls.jpg


Here's the dip switch, completely re-wired. Someone had been in here and mucked up the original wiring. There were splices, and other dismay, and the outer black wrap was long gone.
20180909-rewired dip switch.jpg


Horn wire with new terminal crimped and shield, ready for install - toot toot!
20180909-terminal with sleeve.jpg


Another close up of new wiring with crimped terminal - just before snapping it back into the 6-block plug end.
20180909-terminal.jpg
 

CSteve

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Thanks to everyone who contributed to helping me determine if these switches were original to the car. I now am confident they are. I had to wait for the "right" tool and correct terminals to correctly re-wire the dip switch. But once everything arrived, it was smooth sailing. Wow - what a difference having the right tool for the job makes. Here are some pics of the final controls, ready to re-install in the car.

Here's the turn signal switch, dip switch, and headlight switch, all cleaned up and ready.
View attachment 51377

Here's the dip switch, completely re-wired. Someone had been in here and mucked up the original wiring. There were splices, and other dismay, and the outer black wrap was long gone.
View attachment 51378

Horn wire with new terminal crimped and shield, ready for install - toot toot!
View attachment 51379

Another close up of new wiring with crimped terminal - just before snapping it back into the 6-block plug end.
View attachment 51380
I have nothing to contribute to this esoteric discussion, as I was lost by the time I got to the end of Stephen's first post. And impressive piece of jeweler's eyepiece work you guys did.

But I do have a question. Mine is a '74 Euro Coupe. Assuming my stalks and their internals are original, and I have owned the car long enough as only the third owner, what, if anything, would be different with the wiring, etc between an Italian delivered coupe and a US delivery? Just an informational question from the curious.

Steve
 

lloyd

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Hi Scott. First off, I have to say I have a bit of turn signal arm hoarding envy - how did you end up with SIX.

Should turn signals "wipe water from windshields" or should wipers signal lane changes and turns? :confused:

Speaking only for myself, some of my (former) collection of turn signal and headlight dimming stalk/wiper control assemblies were indirectly related to their original steering column placement. A quirk of "early" Type 114, E9 and E3 operation is the fact that most of these models had turn signal stalks mounted on the right side of the steering column, which is/was different from most other cars of the period. Drivers more familiar with the column switch locations, could and would easily hyper extend the wrong stalk and damage the assembly. Over the years, I collected several column switches secured with assorted combinations of glue, wire and zip ties. These repairs were likely the result of driver confusion or inadvertence due to switch placement. (Conversely, when driving non-E9 cars, forgetful drivers or those more familiar with E9 turn signal stalk locations often switched on their windshield wipers, instead of signaling an intent to change lanes or make a turn.) Exactly why BMW decided to conform with the practice of car manufacturers regarding steering column switch stalk placement, is probably obvious. ("Problems" caused by confused/ignorant drivers, or maybe too many customer complaints that switch replacement should be covered by the new car warranty? :p)

It is unclear what other "modern" cars produced in the '60s and '70s, besides those mentioned above, had the same quirky steering column location. For an historical perspective, mechanical turn signals (as opposed to hand and arm signaling) have been around for almost as long as automobile traffic. Yet few car manufacturers were quick to adopt them as optional or standard equipment, let alone, adopt uniform location for any such switch. According to one source, quoted below, Europeans introduced the semaphore system also known as "trafficators."

[Trafficators] were powered by electro magnets used to raise an arm (usually mounted high on the door pillar) indicating a turn was about to be made. Once these arms were in the "on" position, power went to the lens area, lighting a small bulb. When they were "off", the trafficators folded into the door pillar. This allowed drivers to keep their hands on the wheel, a step up when it came to safety. Although Ford was not offering turn signals on U.S.-made cars, for German-built Model A's trafficators came factory-installed. Scintilla, a Swiss firm, manufactured a number of these, and they had left-side and right-side models. The driver's toggle switch used to activate the arm was mounted in the center of the dash. While Ford did not produce this component, some versions came complete with the Ford logo.

Trafficators had actually been around long before the Model A, and their shape is said to resemble the signal arm used by trainmen of the Royal Bavarian Railway since 1890, though about half that size. First appearing in the early 1900s they had several fathers. Italian Alfredo Barrachini in 1908 added electric lights to a cable-activated system. In 1918 the Naillik Motor Signal Company of Boston added electric motor drive. For slow or stop a switch in the brake pedal activated hands that swung out on both sides of the car. For left or right turns separate switches were operated from the clutch pedal. At night the small hands were illuminated. In 1923 French inventors Gustave Deneef and Maurice Boisson utilized a linear solenoid and in 1927 Germans Max Ruhl and Ernst Neuman added internal illumination to the solenoid operation. As more modern turn signals were introduced, trafficators were phased out. Many drivers thought that a good thing, especially since trafficators were fragile, often broke off, and tended to stick in the "off" position.

Back in the States, Buick was the first U.S. automaker to offer factory-installed flashing turn signals. Introduced in 1939 as a safety feature, the new-fangled feature was advertised as the "Flash-Way Directional Signal" operated from a switch on the new "Handi-shift" column-mounted shifter. The flashing signals only operated on the rear lights. In 1940 Buick enhanced the directional indicators by extending the signals to front lights and adding a self-canceling mechanism. That year directional signals became standard on Buick, Cadillac, LaSalle, and the Hudson Country Club vehicles and optional on Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac (for a cost of $7.95), Hudson (for $10), and Packard. In 1941, Dodge offered turn signals as an option on all its models. After WWII turn signals and turn signal levers mounted on the left side of the steering column became more commonplace. For those cars without them, however, the Illinois-based Lester Company offered a Simplex Direction Signal Kit for '42 to '49 models, advertising that the signals available for $8.95 would work "like factory-installed models on expensive cars". In 1951 the average American family income was less than $4000 a year. As little as that now sounds, it was enough for many families to invest in more luxurious cars, partaking of options available for more powerful engines, two-tone paint, and even turn signalshttp://secondchancegarage.com/public/history-of-turn-signal.cfm



If all else fails?
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"Design technique should serve a man." (From a cookbook, per Rod Serling, or something reminiscent of Neil Armstrong? - see below. )

Nice dark wood tones.
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