Vintage CSL Race Car Resto

[lafngrvy]

Hello,

I am a newbie to this forum, but a long time BMW/E9 fan.

Currently I own a CSL that has been raced on and off since the early 90's (a fairly notorious car, by all accounts, but that story will have to wait for another day). I purchased it this past winter and have raced it a few times this summer to get some seat time and evaluate the car. We have been plagued with a bunch of garage rot problems- gaskets and seals, electrical stuff, etc., and so I have decided to park the car for the rest of the summer and begin planning and executing a complete restoration of the car.

I will be needing a lot of help along the way. I have decided to replicate a Gr. 2 car from the day and am currently considering either the Schnitzer silver/red Motul car, or the Alpina Lumintas yellow/black car from the early 70's.

To date I have purchased a correct Motorsport steering wheel, fiberglass dash and console box, and the correct ATE breakers. I am working on the fiberglass inner door panels, and the correct fenders.

Below is a picture of my car as it is now, as well as the two cars I am considering.

I look forward to getting to know the members of this forum as I work through this project. From what I have read so far, this group is very knowledgeable as well as welcoming.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[timt]

Steve, welcome and good luck ... it's good to see a different choice of original racer to replicate and that should add to the "colour" out their. There's been a strong revival (well several!) of CSL racers over here (UK and to a lesser extent continental Europe) in the last couple of years in the Masters historic series so there is also more "professional" expertise out there although at a price and not necessarily easily accessible! Having said that Zaprace who have been associated with racing CSLs for some time are quite visible. You may also have heard of Roundel Racing whose principal has been associated with racing CSLs for many years and has/is rebuilding various well known ex team cars for US and other owners.

Regards

 

[lafngrvy]

Engine Preps

Tim,

Thank you for the leads. I have heard of both shops, and spent some time on Zaprace's site. My car was headed for the Master's series until the seller decided he'd rather have the car stay on this side of the Atlantic.

Can you tell me a bit about the engines they are using in that series? Anyone else have any thoughts on engine prep for these cars?

Here is my dilemma: current cost to prep a M49 engine complete with Kugelfischer injection, slide throttles, etc. is somewhere north of $75K, if you can find the parts. I am considering an S38 based engine with electronic fuel injection, but replicate the trumpets and make it look as authentic as possible. More reliable, less costly, easier to keep running and tune, and, hopefully, still in the spirit.

What say all of you?

Steve

 

[sprintevo]

Engine

My route is similar but with am M90 engine and Motec.

 

[timt]

Steve, I wish I had the car and ....

The direction you take is down to what you want to do and the race regulations applicable. If you want to do something similar to "The Masters Series" over here then you have to meet the regs which is effectively conformance to the regs for the type of the period = many $s! If you want to "immitate" with more modern (relative) and more available / less expensive components then you fall into whatever "modified" class is applicable and race against other machinery which may or may not appeal to you.

See the rules over here, I assume they are likely to be similar over there http://www.themastersseries.com/resources/Touring70s_Regs_2009.pdf The participants use the machinery of the period, and that means it really must be of the period; ie, "looks similar" doesn't cut it. Sadly that means it's not for "ordinary" mortals but it does mean that the cars that are in are generally maintained to a very high order and represent the period as it was in all its glory.

It's your money, your toys, your choice as they say.

I'm not going racing in my car just hope to sprint and/or hill climb but I've opted for the modified route and not tried to keep it period. Much as I would love Kugelfischer injection, slide throttles, etc, like you (maybe) I find the cost daunting ... and that's just to get it if you can.

The key is to do what you want to do and are comfortable with, there will always be others who disagree!

 

[shanon]

Hello and welcome,

As stated above, depends on what you want to do with it and who you want to run with.
Some clubs are stricter than others about 'period correctness'. VARA and HSR-West seem to be the most 'flexible'. Give Jeff Ireland @ Ireland Engineering a call about set-up for VARA, he the Tech. E9s generally get put in with Big Bore, we loose the drag race but get 'em back in the corners.

There are a few of us E9 racers here in the Bay Area (SF & Monterey), my brother and I run built M30s with Webers, we know of a few running twin cams w/ FI and Webers. If you need an race engine builder, we highly suggest Terry Tinney in Livermore, CA. His work is flawless and reliable. Best bang for the buck, race built M30 with triple webers = dead reliable and period correct.

Good luck on your project and drop a line when your ready to come out and play, my brothers and I will be out next season with our 'circus'. We're always on the look out for more E9s to harass the 911s and V8s!

come out and join the circus!
-shanon
The Essex Bros.

 

[lafngrvy]

Shannon,

I have run the car twice this summer with HMSA (Reno & Portland), and Cris put me in with the Corvettes, Cobras, etc. As you say, they pull away down the straights, but look out in the corners! A lot of fun when the car was running. Henry Schmidt was in Reno with his IMSA car- M49 with close to 500HP, lots of down force, and VERY quick. He ran with the FIA cars. I also ran a couple of SCCA races in GT3 against Mazda rotarys. Again, faster down the straight but no brakes and questionable handling. Beat them twice!

HMSA is fun to run with as they are interested in full grids and fun, safe weekends. They only get on people who really get carried away with incorrect preparation. They would be happy with an S38 injected engine as long as I don't get too carried away. Korman claims a 3.6L S38 engine can be set up to produce 425HP, and live forever.

I currently have a 3.5L carbureted engine that was built in 1995 by Henry Lawrence in NC. The dyno sheet claimed 323HP @ 6500 RPM, but after 14 years of hard use it is a lot less then that, :cry: but it is still pretty torquey.

My research has indicated that some Gr. 2 cars were carbed, and some were injected, depending on how close the owner was to the factory speed spigot. I've considered leaving it as a carbed car, but was concerned with tuning issues and power.

What kind of power do your cars produce? Are they 3.0L or larger? Also, what gearbox and diff are you guys using? What diff ratio is in your cars?

Ever heard of Bill Watson from Road Rockets? He was helpful in Reno and seems to know these cars pretty well.

Thanks for the help.

Steve

 

[pj]

hey , i have a m102 with all the goodies, should be good for upwards of 300 reliable hp at low boost, more if you go mental,