When to say when.

Bmachine

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Mike Burger's recent post brought up a point that I have been thinking about for a while.

Restoring a car, whether an e9 or any other, very quickly becomes a financial and logistical quicksand. Egged on by the excitement of the building project, by the encouragement of other board members and by the admiration we feel for a beautifully finished automobile, we tend to get sucked in deeper and deeper into a financial black hole. But we tend to rationalize it all by the sheer satisfaction of building something physical that will (hopefully) provide immense satisfaction, much driving pleasure and perhaps the admiration of our peers. At least for a while.

But, unless you are financially well off and money is no object, there comes a time when you step back and realize that you now have 50, 70, 100 or whatever thousand dollars or euros tied into what is essentially a totally disposable luxury. And if you have a family, inevitably at some point, you can't help but think: "A new house would probably serve the whole family much better", or "Those kids' college tuitions are not going to miraculously disappear unless I start paying them off". I remember reading with great sadness about fellow member eludwigs abrupt decision to have to sell the coupe he had worked so incredibly hard to build to very high standards about a year ago. He only mentioned something about "A sudden change in personal situation" or something to that effect.

Even my own car which was bought 95% rust free will have eaten about $60k once all the mechanicals will be done. I originally had planned on putting $30k in it maximum... And that does not even include a repaint. That is a LOT of money sitting in the garage being used mostly only on sunny Sundays.

This makes me appreciate people like Mike Goble. When I decided to go a for a B35 motor, I fell into the trap of "Since I'm going to do the transplant, lets do a full rebuild, the Motronic conversion and the whole nine yards". It will undoubtedly be spectacular and reliable and all that. But Mike had posted a while back that he also wanted a B35, so went to a salvage yard, picked a decent looking motor, plunked it into his car, put some Webers on it and was driving it within a few weeks for a minimal cost. (Paraphrasing here but that was the idea). Now he's got a real fun car with a modern motor that does not feel like a financial boat anchor. Props to him for providing a very valid other option.

Anyway, the point of all this is that anyone wanting to get into this hobby better first sit down and determine a real Dollar or Euro limit on what he/she can afford to spend without looking in the garage and lamenting "I enjoyed almost every minute of this project but, the reality is that I can't really afford to keep it." Most of us have probably reached the point of no return by now but it would be very helpful to mention this to anyone who is wanting to get into the hobby.

A classic car can be a tremendous source of enjoyment and stress relief. But only if you are very diligent about keeping it within what you are financially comfortable with.
 
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TodB

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Always take any resto estimate, both time and cost, and double them for planning and budget purposes. Always. Especially so when conversing with one's spouse if that person has "insight" into the family finances (yea, yea, that's it, insight). If the result ends up cheaper and/or faster, then bank error in your favor and more $ for future mods.

Like anything else, its the "while you are in there" scope creep that kills a project. IF I'm going to replace the head gasket, I may as well have a the head rebuilt and may as well get a better cam which means that I should have the head ported and polished and if I do that, I may as well get the lower end done which means I may as will bump up the compression which means I'll probably need to go with bigger carbs or megasquirt and probably should finish it off with a freer flowing exhaust. This will all need bigger injectors and a larger throttle body. All that rationalization for a blownhead gasket. Who in their right mins would do that?
 

dang

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lways take any resto estimate, both time and cost, and double them for planning and budget purposes.
This is true for most any project. Every time I have a personal project or work project involving construction and outfitting I get a really good idea of what the costs should be and then double it. It's amazing how close it ends up doing it that way. It also helps set expectations so you don't get depressed later. :D
 

iconoclast6

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Yup. When to move on. Mike Berger’s and other similar stories are the inevitable reality as time moves on and time moves on us. None of us are forever shielded from life circumstances.

Thankfully, Mike’s sale had the dignity of a private sale to a likely grateful and knowledgeable buyer. I would wish the same circumstances for all of us.

When my time to sell comes, good old boy scout training suggests, prior preparation. As such, I’d like to have blank checks from interested buyers already in my possession. As a heads up, I’d be packaging my E9 with my M3. PM me for the address to send said checks.

May we all drive as long as we can, before all we can do, is steer.
 

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Rek

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Mike Burger's recent post brought up a point that I have been thinking about for a while.

Restoring a car, whether an e9 or any other, very quickly becomes a financial and logistical quicksand. Egged on by the excitement of the building project, by the encouragement of other board members and by the admiration we feel for a beautifully finished automobile, we tend to get sucked in deeper and deeper into a financial black hole. But we tend to rationalize it all by the sheer satisfaction of building something physical that will (hopefully) provide immense satisfaction, much driving pleasure and perhaps the admiration of our peers. At least for a while.
h.

Good points here. It's never going to work economically especially when your time is factored in.

More importantly, my wife pointed out that for me the journey is more enjoyable than reaching the destination, and I guess that must apply to others too. Artists create masterpieces but then sell them. Once complete, the allure wears off and sale is considered. Its happened twice before to me and I only hope a I can resist the urge this time.

What it does do is make me a lot more capable practically, and that is additional payback which I value highly.
 

deQuincey

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i have never though of the coupe as an investment, but remember i bought it for less than 7k€
after ten years and after doing must of the possible work in it i may feel the need of a change, but i have now a two wheel alternative and i can come back again to the coupe when i like to
i may want a 1968 911, but seriously i do not want to go again through all the learning process
not to mention i can not afford it

and i agree i am enjoying the journey, but in my case, as much as the destination, and i feel i have not reached the destination yet, probably that is one of the differences with our friend Mike, he probably fully completed his trip,...

when ?
i do not know, i just bought the r45 from a guy that is only 15 year older than me, but he told me he couldn’t manage the weight of the motorcycle well
that is another point for sure,...
 
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Belgiumbarry

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yep , restoring a car we are like kids in a candy store.... supported by the forum :p:D
o well, if the final "cost" exceeds your personal "comfort" zone you will never enjoy driving it , in either what price range you may be.
It will be a garage queen as investment …. or for sale.

Think very good about what you "can" do with the car once "finished"……. know your own skills …. and don't foul yourself you can restore a 10k into a 100k one for 20k......:)
 

Philippe db

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Hi Bo,

Very recognizable and typical for car restoration projects. Always double the amount you get quoted and you will have it about right. Did it ones when I was very young. It only was a VW Beetle but it ruined me. Now I will never ever buy a project car but only cars that have been restored or are in perfect condition. This might look like the expensive option but for anybody interested in classic cars and not being able to do the work him self this for me is the only sensible way to enjoy this hobby. Once you loose sleep over money you put in to any hobby, as far as I'm concerned, you should look for a new one. Today I'm 55 years old and completely lost track of the amount of marriages I've seen gone bust as a result of hobby's spiraling out of controle.
 

JayWltrs

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Hi Bo,

Very recognizable and typical for car restoration projects. Always double the amount you get quoted and you will have it about right. Did it ones when I was very young. It only was a VW Beetle but it ruined me. Now I will never ever buy a project car but only cars that have been restored or are in perfect condition. This might look like the expensive option but for anybody interested in classic cars and not being able to do the work him self this for me is the only sensible way to enjoy this hobby. Once you loose sleep over money you put in to any hobby, as far as I'm concerned, you should look for a new one. Today I'm 55 years old and completely lost track of the amount of marriages I've seen gone bust as a result of hobby's spiraling out of controle.

Yes, the cost of my buddy’s divorce was huge. And all because of his car hobby—he bought cars for Jessica & Tiffany & Jennifer & Gabrielle. None could question his devotion to body work.
 

teahead

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Pretty darn easy to spend $1000 USD 100x.

Steering wheel here, front seat covers there, etc., etc.

I think the internet has made it worse in some aspects. I.e. you collect all this knowledge of how NICE your car can be from others, of course you TOO want your's that nice!

All about keeping up w/the Jones'.
 

craterface

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Somewhere I saw a t-shirt which read "I love many cars and one woman" Sage advice :)
More sage advice, "It's a blessing to be able to appreciate nice things without having to own them". I try to follow this maxim, but have not succeeded as much as I would like. Need to work on it more.
 

jmackro

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the cost of my buddy’s divorce was huge. And all because of his car hobby
Saw a funny bumper sticker the other day: "Love is grand, divorce is 100 grand".

Back to the cost of restorations: One observation I have made is that it is relatively cheap to put an old car back on the road with sound mechanicals. But it can be breathtakingly expensive to make it look new (or better than new). The blown budgets come when you get into paint, interiors, chrome, and replacing parts not because they are worn/broken, but because they look shabby.
 

Mike Goble

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Saw a funny bumper sticker the other day: "Love is grand, divorce is 100 grand".

Back to the cost of restorations: One observation I have made is that it is relatively cheap to put an old car back on the road with sound mechanicals. But it can be breathtakingly expensive to make it look new (or better than new). The blown budgets come when you get into paint, interiors, chrome, and replacing parts not because they are worn/broken, but because they look shabby.

I'm in the "put it on the road" category, not so much attention to looks and shine. Reliable and roadworthy makes for a great daily driver. In the 12+ years I've been driving my E3 it has never left me stranded. I also think that E9 expectations are higher than E3 expectations.
 
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