Front springs does not fit.

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Henrik

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I had my 2800CS MOT tested yesterday and to my surprise the mechanic found that the front springs aren't long enough to fill the gap between the upper and lower spring plate. I.e when the car is jacked and the wheels are hanging freely there is a 15-20 mm gap between the top of the spring and the upper spring plate. I have heard noises from the front suspension when I have driven on bumpy roads so this must be the answer. This fault can lead to a possible displacement of the springs when driving and I have to find a solution. The car is lowered with sport springs (from W&N) and Bilsteins.
Does anybody know the correct height of the sport springs with no tension on them?

Henrik
 
Henrik said:
I had my 2800CS MOT tested yesterday and to my surprise the mechanic found that the front springs aren't long enough to fill the gap between the upper and lower spring plate. I.e when the car is jacked and the wheels are hanging freely there is a 15-20 mm gap between the top of the spring and the upper spring plate. I have heard noises from the front suspension when I have driven on bumpy roads so this must be the answer. This fault can lead to a possible displacement of the springs when driving and I have to find a solution. The car is lowered with sport springs (from W&N) and Bilsteins.
Does anybody know the correct height of the sport springs with no tension on them?

Henrik
Click to expand...

can not tell how much it was, but using Carl Nelson springs happens a similar thing when car is jacked wheels hanging there is a gap, yes

but never noises from suspensión, must be other cause
 
OK. So W&N and Carl Nelson springs probably has the same height. Then surely more members must have experienced this problem. I'm thinking that some sort of spacer must be installed to close the gap due to the fact that the spring in it's worst case can change position and even move out of the lower spring plate.
 
Henrik said:
OK. So W&N and Carl Nelson springs probably has the same height. Then surely more members must have experienced this problem. I'm thinking that some sort of spacer must be installed to close the gap due to the fact that the spring in it's worst case can change position and even move out of the lower spring plate.
Click to expand...

hi henrik
i think there is no problem at all, and no spacer is advised, i mean it seems to me imposible to be in a situation in which the spring is sumbitted to a configuration similar to the one when the Wheel is hanging from the strut
i guess that there is no turning of the spring neither, as it has a sitting bed that acommodates it in place
IMHO
 
my experience from my extremely lowered 2002 was that when you raised the car and the front wheels hung, there was significant space between the spring and the upper cap - in fact you could turn the spring. when you lowered the car and went for a drive, inevitably the spring would rotate and find its normal home on the bottom perch ... and it would make a noise when it rotated and set. took a little to get used to as it was a noise you weren't expecting.
 
Same with my lowered 02. It had been a rally car and the springs are wired to the top plate of the strut to keep them located
 
I think......It's not the spring. It's the shock.
Sport springs need sport shocks. Your shock shaft is too long.
 
Only way it can make noise is if the car excursion simulates that of jacking up the car and getting the wheel off the ground. Basically you gotta hit a pot hole big enough to swallow up a family of four, bottom out and then have the car recoil high enough to create the separation......

Also assume your strut housings are original. BMW really screwed with these and made a bunch of different sizes.
 
Henrik,
Post this issue to W&N and ask them about this problem with your set-up.
I can't think W&N sell springs that are so short that they not are firmly fixed between the spring plates when the spring is fully extended because I suspect the German MOT does not approve similar either.
 
I'll add to the crew that had 2002s whose springs hung free when jacked up. In my case the upper and lower spring pads were also missing, and the springs creaked a bit when they rotated. I solve the creaking by putting maybe 9 inches of garden hose on the lowest coil, so there was no longer metal-to-metal contact. I thought of wiring the springs to the perches but didn't do it, then sold the car to a moron, who sold the car soon after.
 
Honolulu said:
I'll add to the crew that had 2002s whose springs hung free when jacked up. In my case the upper and lower spring pads were also missing, and the springs creaked a bit when they rotated. I solve the creaking by putting maybe 9 inches of garden hose on the lowest coil, so there was no longer metal-to-metal contact. I thought of wiring the springs to the perches but didn't do it, then sold the car to a moron, who sold the car soon after.
Click to expand...

Did you use "German" garden hose?... I been looking for that in the mainland.
 
sfdon said:
I think......It's not the spring. It's the shock.
Sport springs need sport shocks. Your shock shaft is too long.
Click to expand...

Don has it. The answer is a shock with a shorter stroke to keep everything in place. Bilstein offers these.

When I did my suspension with Hardy and Beck we got their specially spec'd Bilstein shocks to work with the lowering spring.
 
Lotuss7 said:
Don has it. The answer is a shock with a shorter stroke to keep everything in place. Bilstein offers these.

When I did my suspension with Hardy and Beck we got their specially spec'd Bilstein shocks to work with the lowering spring.
Click to expand...

i'm going to step out on a limb - but NOT come anywhere close to saying i disagree with Don ... but ... my e30 m3 with bilstein sports and H+R sport springs ... as well as the 2002 with sport springs and bilstein sports - both shocks for lowering springs ... both installed by professionals (one was sourced and installed by Korman as part of their clubsport suspension) ... and yes, both experienced this phenomenon.

at the time, on the e30 m3, the h+r sports and the bilstein sports were the preferred arrangement ... other than coilovers.
 
Scott,

When I did my 1972 2002 in 1978 I went to H&B for the springs. Installed with standard Bilsteins (Didn't want to pay the additional $...these guys were expensive back then for a recent collage graduate) and had the "if I ever get airborne this could be a bad landing and catastrophic moment" Swapped to their specially valved and shortened stroke Bilstein shock and the issue was resolved. When I did my suspension on the E9 specifically went to them for the same reason. Don did the install and can best speak to the figment in this application, but I am not aware of this issue here.

IMHO the solution is a fully designed assembly. Can't necessarily get the same thing sourcing from independent suppliers. But would seem a universal issue which a professional could resolve with Mr. Bilstein. FYI the shortened rear shocks from H&B for the E9 are based on a 2002 Bilstein. Requires special sleeves for mounting bolts. Maybe some consideration there when they were the Alpina guys in the 70s / 80s and doing these set ups. And the ride height and compliance are spot on. Not dropped too much. Just enough.
 
I must do something about this to avoid problems with MOT testing every 2 years. I am certainly not pleased to have springs that can jump out of position either. I'll take some pictures and post into this thread and also send an email to W&N as you suggest Stefan. German MOT testers are perhaps even more strict than the Norwegians. Whatever happens, I will at least check the position of the springs if the car has been jacked up. The Bilsteins stroke must obviously be an issue here. But I (among many others) was not aware of this when I bought the dampers and springs.
 
Last edited:
Let's just face the facts: the spring must stay under pressure during any circumstances! Period.

If the car has lowering springs, these should of course also be a little stiffer to make up for the lost suspension travel. Additionally this calls for shorter shocks to keep the shorter spring in place. Any other solution will deliver poor handling qualities and lack of grip in extreme situations.

In Germany, the springs don't just have to fit and stay in place when lifting the car, they also have to be approved by the TüV test dep.

Regards
A
 
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