Client requests for 3.0 CSL - special versions

CSL 1973

CSL 1973

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There are many interesting facts about the CSL production.

Looking at the so called client requests in terms of colours, BMW used coulour codes 099 and 098 for the special cars:

2210-2211-2212 1 client request
2275 (non bat) 4 client requests
2275 (bat) 1 client request
4355 6 client requests

The last 2275 bat (2275539) was one of the cars with special painting and at least one 4355 left the factory with wider race wings, special rims and individual stripes (the famous Hoeness bat). There are also three 2275 CSLs known with factory sunroof (with black CSL interior roof headliner). Please note that none of these options were listed in the official options brochures, but exists anyhow.

Some CSLs were delivered directly to Alpina (like the first 2210 carb car) and became Alpina B2S with 250 HP (the price tag for a fully converted B2S was between DM 43 000 DM and DM 45 250). How many CSLs which became Alpina B2S, I don' t know (maybe someone here could tell), but they are very rare and today only some 6-7 Alpina B2S CSL cars are known.

For the 2285, there was no special requests in terms of colours but, in addition to the special RHD city pack, there were a lot of other special requests like factory sunroof, vinyl addition to the roof, CSi seats etc.

Remember that during the happy 70s, BMW had big difficulties to sell the expensive CSL and most likely they delivered tailor-made/individual CSLs due to the clients requests.

Cheers
 
The last bat did not have a custom color, it was chamonix white and was recently for sale in Germany for 125K euros. There is only known to be one batmobile that was delivered to and converted by Alpina.
As for customer CSL's, CS, and CSi conversions done by Alpina there really isnt enough documented information as to how many cars were converted or still do exist and Alpina claims to have no record of it. Only a documented build sheet with specific cylinder head and block numbers matching the corresponding VINs can confirm authenticity on customer conversions..
 
CSL 1973,

Thank you for sharing the information.

I still haven't red any official BMW talk / report about who made the 1st serie carb CSL: is it DEVELOPED by Alpina and BUILT by BMW, or DEVELOPED and BUILT by Alpina in Buchloe.

I am thinking about this because the history of the first carb CSL is not clear (at least to me).

I guess that inka CSL in the first carb CSL brochure can be first carb CSL. It might be possible that the same car is show in an a short AMS article (black and white photo).

The BMW archive says that first carb CSL was delivered to Alpina in 1971 march. The AMS article published in around 1971 may. It might suggest that this car is a so-called 1st serie carb CSL prototype. But the some of the 168 cars came from BMW (regardind the bmw archive).

So I think that car can't be the first Alpina CSL. The first alpina CSL (B2S) was B. Bovensiepen's blue/red car, right ?

I think that Yannick can give more information about the numbers of the B2S produced. I have red something like 15 was produced and 8 or 9 exists.

As you might know the CSLs from Alpina were available with B3 engine. As I remember the 4355030 was an Alpina B3 (see BMW Car magazine with the polaris Alpina CSL). I don't know if any other B3 was ever created by Alpina. Also no information about the Alpina B4 - if any was made in 1974.

For me one of the most important question about the Alpina CSL story is the bicolor paint and the stripes. I still don't understand how B. B.'s car could be a red/blue car, and there was another some color/green car. And other cars are polaris (single color).

Yannick's B2S has BMW ALPINA letters with no stripes, some B2 and B2S has no letters / no stripes, or 70's style Alpina stipes, others has 3.0 CSL stripe, and this B3 i have wrote about has 3.0 CSL ALPINA, and Carey Idra's CSL has 3.0 CSL ALPINA letter in the stripes.

The B3 owner told me that he has wrote the Alpina letter to the 3.0 CSL stripe (3.0 CSL -> 3.0 CSL Alpina).

But these letter can be seen on the ex-Idra's car. Several people told that the Idra car is 100% (not 98, not 99, but 100%) original B2S. But how can it be when the letters on B3 CSL stipe is not 'original' ?
 
EastsideM3

Many thx for the info.

I think you misunderstood me. I wrote about the last 2275 bat (last of the 110 bats = 2275539), which most probely was a client request with special colour. It is correct that the very last bat from the last batch of the 57 cars (4355057) lives in Germany and the colour is Chamonix.

feri:

Many thx for the info.

I agree with you about the Alpinas; we have to find out more about the details. As you wrote, Alpina cannot confirm how many were built during that time period. I think they can confirm number of engines built but not how many cars were built/converted. I have seen pictures of the cars you mention and the stripes-issue is not clear to me. Looking into car mags from 1972 when they tested the famous blue-red Alpina "LL-L 502", it is clear that this car only had the letters "BMW ALPINA" on the front wings.

Due to the carb-info I have received (many thx), the first carb 2210578 was delivered to Alpina. The colour is unknown to BMW. The second carb was 2211337 built 24/8 1971 (Colorado). The third 2211338 (Inka) was built 9/9 1971 and was delivered to Alpina.

As regards BMW Alpina, one good source is the Alpina book by James Taylor but I think we also have some deep expert knowledge on this forum.

Cheers
 
The red/blue car was an injected car so it could not be the first B2S. As far as the ex Carey Ida car, there are some items that would not be original to that car. For example the custom stripes (which I like, but were never made by Alpina), the airbox and the front spoiler. It is also unclear whether the steering wheel and gear shift knob are original to that car.
 
CSL 1973 said:
EastsideM3

Many thx for the info.

I think you misunderstood me. I wrote about the last 2275 bat (last of the 110 bats = 2275539), which most probely was a client request with special colour. It is correct that the very last bat from the last batch of the 57 cars (4355057) lives in Germany and the colour is Chamonix.

feri:

Many thx for the info.

I agree with you about the Alpinas; we have to find out more about the details. As you wrote, Alpina cannot confirm how many were built during that time period. I think they can confirm number of engines built but not how many cars were built/converted. I have seen pictures of the cars you mention and the stripes-issue is not clear to me. Looking into car mags from 1972 when they tested the famous blue-red Alpina "LL-L 502", it is clear that this car only had the letters "BMW ALPINA" on the front wings.

Due to the carb-info I have received (many thx), the first carb 2210578 was delivered to Alpina. The colour is unknown to BMW. The second carb was 2211337 built 24/8 1971 (Colorado). The third 2211338 (Inka) was built 9/9 1971 and was delivered to Alpina.

As regards BMW Alpina, one good source is the Alpina book by James Taylor but I think we also have some deep expert knowledge on this forum.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Ok, sorry for the mis quote. Interesting, do you know what color the last first series bat was?
 
eastsideM3 said:
The red/blue car was an injected car so it could not be the first B2S. As far as the ex Carey Ida car, there are some items that would not be original to that car. For example the custom stripes (which I like, but were never made by Alpina), the airbox and the front spoiler. It is also unclear whether the steering wheel and gear shift knob are original to that car.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the info about the ex-idra cars.

About the alpina engines: correct me if i am wrong:

b1 - carb
b2 - carb, SOLEX 40/45DDH
b2s - injection + Kugelfischer
b3 - injection
b4 - carb + weber
 
eastsideM3:

As regards the colour of the first 110 bats, there were 76 Polaris, 33 chamonix and one Client request (colour code 099). In my notes for these 110 bats, I only have one car which is not Polaris or Chamonix. This car is Golf and it's Jochen Neerspach's ex company car. This car is not the last so it might have been re-sprayed.

In other words, for the moment I cannot confirm the colour of the last bat of the first bat-batch but it should not be Polaris nor Chamonix.

Cheers
 
feri said:
Thank you for the info about the ex-idra cars.

About the alpina engines: correct me if i am wrong:

b1 - carb
b2 - carb, SOLEX 40/45DDH
b2s - injection + Kugelfischer
b3 - injection
b4 - carb + weber
Click to expand...

Alpina originally used weber carbs for their engine setups and later switched to solex and then injection, it had nothing to do with the B number assigned. These designations usually represented a "motor kit" which used different carb and HP setups. I cant recall what the injected car's HP output was, but it was the most powerful of all the CSL's, I believe 250-260 HP. The B2 used two carbs, which I believe produced 200 Hp. The B2-S was the most powerful of the Alpina carb setups producing 245HP and using three weber or solex carbs.
For example my 1974 E3 B2-S was a late 70's conversion and uses three solex ddh 45's. My 1971 E9 was one of the early b2-s conversions and uses three webers, both with build sheets showing 245HP kits. There is literature that states that the B2S engine came later after the B2 engine, but that has been proven not to be true and I believe a variety of different setups could be purchased. Maybe someone else could fill you in but I have never seen a B3 or B4 car or corresponding documentation. Ive also read this to have existed in the summary written by the guy in California, but have not seen one. I also believe the red and blue CSL showcased in the test magazine is designated B2-S??, and its an injected car.
 
eastsideM3:

This is quality info. Thank you. It contains lots of new information for me.

On the other hand, it means most written sources (magazines, James Taylor Alpina book, etc) contains incorrect information about the Alpina engines.

As I have took a few pictures of the alpina b3 engine (or as I remember, the owner told that is it a B3) I can share here in the forum if you want.
 
feri said:
eastsideM3:

This is quality info. Thank you. It contains lots of new information for me.

On the other hand, it means most written sources (magazines, James Taylor Alpina book, etc) contains incorrect information about the Alpina engines.
Click to expand...

Yes most are incorrect or unconfirmed. Its ashame Alpina will not comment or write an official book as many of the old timers are retiring or dying off, leaving a lot of unanswered questions, but that adds to the mystique of the early cars.
I can tell you from personal experience, Alpina produced a rocket ship for the 70's with these B2-S cars.
 
Yannick said:
Fully agree Danny but imagine your Polaris Silver B2s in the ultralight body of a very early 2211 xxx or 2212 xxx CSL... :-)

Even more impressive (and loud) for a 1972 car... :-)
Click to expand...

It must be substantially louder for an already loud car, with little sound deadening material.
 
Hi guys,

Interesting thread and thanks for sharing the info.

I think the idea of an image collection of Alpina M30 cars, motors and engine bays is needed. Well, let's just open the whole can and start a gallery for these unique specimens as well as the entire car (body, interior, trunks, etc). I think it should be open to images from both the E9 and E3's in order to draw on the largest pool of Alpina M30 examples and knowledge. I bet they shared the same parts bin.

Since these were very limited builds, I'd wager each true 'specimen' is unique in its own way with variations and evolutions and client personal 'requests'. I'd be happy to share my image collection here that I've gathered for reference from my project celebrating the early Alpina E9 racer = 'KF SC 3'.

From the combined gathered info present here and willing contributors, I believe an informative and authentic reference gallery is very feasible.

BTW: where is good ol' "LL L 502" anyway, still exist? I've heard "KF SC 3" is out there and somewhere in Europe....

And yes, the complete lack of sound deadening material is very....invigorating! LOL.

-shanon
 
BTW: where is good ol' "LL L 502" anyway, still exist? I've heard "KF SC 3" is out there and somewhere in Europe....

I was reading the article (about this car) in the Gold Portfolio on the coupes last night. Pages 115-117.
This particular car had the odd 5-speed ZF box with 2.99 on first and 0.87 on fifth with a 3.89 final drive, permitting to pull all the way to 6200 (or whereever the red line was) on fifth gear !!!

A seriously cool car !!
What dark colour was it? (The pictures are b/w)

It talks about Alpina bringing the weight down from the normal early carb cars´1.165kg to 1.060. How on earth did they do that??
 
Mrs. Alpina perhaps?
Click to expand...

alpina_csl.jpg


Burkard Bovensiepen's secretary, no doubt Shanon (from typewriters to speedsters!)

:mrgreen:

I can tell you from personal experience, Alpina produced a rocket ship for the 70's with these B2-S cars.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the fact that my dad worked for NASA all his career explains why I now seriously hanker after an e9 rocketship, Eastside?

lol!
 
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