1971 Euro CSi on BaT--yes another one!

Johan_CS2800

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I guess we all should watch out with the things we post online. My advise: do as you would speak person to person.
Be it on this forum or any other.
It’s easy to be harsh, lie or be tough when you’re not face to face.
Maybe I shouldn’t have written this…

Anyway, I do enjoy the positive stuff happening on this great forum!
 

CSteve

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I offer up this Coupe that recently sold on BaT. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-bmw-3-0csi-12/

Note the tone of this car's "BaT" copy versus the tone of the car under discussion here. More importantly, compare the photos and read the comments. Both owners use the word "refurbishment." I see a Grand Canyon wide difference. No comparison, not even close. For this old hand the "piece de resistance" is the pair of headlight wipers.

Any one who goes to the trouble of sourcing these options truly knows and loves these cars.

I would only say this here, never on an actual auction site, but the car under discussion is worth $100,000 on its best day. Looking at that dirty, almost disgusting headliner in that car is painful. I am embarrassed for the car. It deserves better!

Steve

PS: If you haven't opened the link the car I attached sold for $180,000. on Feb. 24, 2024. Certainly a fair comp.
 

offpage

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Good point, Steve. Ivo is also a great seller and a measure worth comparing yourself to. His auctions are worth re-reading to see the extent he goes to accurately reflect the cars he is selling. He has has a well deserved and great reputation.
 

rsporsche

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We can watch over restored cars go RNM for the rest of eternity if you guys would prefer. I didn’t claim the car to be a “nut and bolt” restoration but what would you call a car with all new undercarriage, brand new interior upholstery and paint work? Certainly not original condition.
there really aren't qualifiers for the word restoration - it is either restored, or its not. well i guess you could say excellent restoration or horrible restoration. restoration implies completely gone through. it is perhaps more accurate to say that a few things might have been 'updated' on this car.
Sure I speak confidently of the car, more so touching on the fact that its an original configuration car, which it is. Im sorry you don’t like my confident wording pertaining to the condition. Not sure if that justified the car to be dragged through the mud…
careful here ... 'original' has the exact opposite connotation as 'restoration' ... it is either original or its not. once you start changing things, its no longer original. i get what you are saying, but please choose your words carefully. perhaps 'survivor' is a better word ... not being critical of you or the car.
 
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JBMW

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there really aren't qualifiers for the word restoration - it is either restored, or its not. well i guess you could say excellent restoration or horrible restoration. restoration implies completely gone through. it is perhaps more accurate to say that a few things might have been 'updated' on this car.

careful here ... 'original' has the exact opposite connotation as 'restoration' ... it is either original or its not. once you start changing things, its no longer original. i get what you are saying, but please choose your words carefully. perhaps 'survivor' is perhaps a better word ... not being critical of you or the car.
I hear you 100% @rsporsche. I guess Im struggling with using the correct qualifiers relating to a car thats half and half. You wouldn’t call a completely replaced/rehabbed underside original right, its restored? Its updated? Its refurbished? I feel to say restoration work was performed isn’t incorrect. I feel as though “nuts and bolt restoration is the phrase saved for when a car is completely restored, like the Polaris linked above. I knew enough to stay away from that phrase!
And as you said, running into same issue with the words original. Lesson learned.

Ive been talking with Wolf, he told me I just get a little too excited and euphoric and must keep it simple and stay with the facts. I agree. Never meant to steer anyone wrong with my words.
Original condition, partial restoration, nuts and bolt restoration and “resto-mod” I guess?? . Keep it simple.
Just like the engineering term right?
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
I appreciate your understanding, compassionate feedback.
 

Drew Gregg

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I offer up this Coupe that recently sold on BaT. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-bmw-3-0csi-12/

Note the tone of this car's "BaT" copy versus the tone of the car under discussion here. More importantly, compare the photos and read the comments. Both owners use the word "refurbishment." I see a Grand Canyon wide difference. No comparison, not even close. For this old hand the "piece de resistance" is the pair of headlight wipers.

Any one who goes to the trouble of sourcing these options truly knows and loves these cars.

I would only say this here, never on an actual auction site, but the car under discussion is worth $100,000 on its best day. Looking at that dirty, almost disgusting headliner in that car is painful. I am embarrassed for the car. It deserves better!

Steve

PS: If you haven't opened the link the car I attached sold for $180,000. on Feb. 24, 2024. Certainly a fair comp.
Steve--Let's hope the buyer of the Polaris/red CSi joins the forum and tells us the story of how he is getting the car registered in California.
 

CSteve

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Drew, yeah, that will be an interesting story. Negotiating the CA DMV or whatever the Bureau of Motor Vehicles calls itself in the Golden State will surely be Kafkaesque at its best.
 

Arde

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I love the statement that we, in the board carry the burden of knowledge. My wife totally agrees, and I always go further and clarify that I also carry the extra burden of always being right... Not easy trust me :).
 

Wes

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I love the statement that we, in the board carry the burden of knowledge. My wife totally agrees, and I always go further and clarify that I also carry the extra burden of always being right... Not easy trust me :).
Then there's the burden of moderating.. :D I do love this place though, we are such a reasonable bunch - most of the time. Genuinely mean that..
 

lip277

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Speaking of 'moderation' - BaT went through and wiped a ton of comments off the auction as 'non-constructive' - Including those from some of the folks here....
I really don't get their deal. This is not the first time that has happened to an auction I have been following.
 

JMinPDX

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Speaking of 'moderation' - BaT went through and wiped a ton of comments off the auction as 'non-constructive' - Including those from some of the folks here....
I really don't get their deal. This is not the first time that has happened to an auction I have been following.
Despite all the hand ringing, current biding stands at $115k with 2 days remaining. (It is a very nice euro CSI) That’s likely pretty close to reserve. I suspect the comment flagging may be BaT’s attempt help the car sell and protect the buyers fee they hope to collect.
 
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sfdon

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Hmmm- the flagging at BAT is a little brother of the Craigslist's flagging system.
Those removed posts were done by readers.
 

eriknetherlands

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Good to see that after some initial sharp comments back and forth we have found each other again. Thanks to the seller for accepting feedback, and to the group for carefully wording their points of attention.

Now if more world leaders would follow this advice...

Now back to the car: I personally never seen this: why is there a chassis# plate riveted in the boot? Is it a US thing? I've seen them on steering columns before.
Is this same-same-but-different?
1710262316144.png
 

lip277

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The car was originally imported to Sweden. Sweden, for some reason, requires a VIN plate in the trunk (or rear of car) in addition to whatever else is there. Not sure that comment survived... LOL

Edit to clarify... I found out about the Sweden thing (regarding the rear VIN tag) via one of the comments on the auction. I just carried that here to help with this question.
 
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eriknetherlands

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not to downplay the car - I'd be very happy to drive it - While i was flipping through the BaT pics, I found something interesting. A learning point for us all if you will.

While flipping through the photo's I always start with the front fenders, floor and rockers/sills. After all, rust is what makes these cars expensive to fix.
The underside of the car is quite well preserved, I see lovely floors pics coming by, and I see little that worries me there.

And I myself have abaoft spot for virgin sills; I've spend hours chopping into my rust bucket, learning about how it should have looked like / was constructed, and re-create & weld it all back.
So my eye falls on these dents in the sills; I see 'em and go "blimy, how clumsy to lift a car by the 0.8mm thin edge of the rocker. They do NOT know what they are doing".
1710264623602.png

Then the next picture is this: It's the shop where it all took place!
Yes, the jack stands are roughly at the factory lift points. But the points where they contact the body are not where a load can be transmitted without damage!
1710263851875.png


point to be made here: sad to see a shop create damage.

I love dents soooo much more when they have a story connected to them.
Like the time time I drove my car out of the garage, in a hurry being late for a dinner date: With the driver's door still slightly open I caught my tool cabinet with it. Silly me in a hurry. I was young. Now I have a lovely wife, and a dent.
They remain forever connected.

Unfortunately most shop-created dents miss the love factor...
 
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Krzysztof

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Good to see that after some initial sharp comments back and forth we have found each other again. Thanks to the seller for accepting feedback, and to the group for carefully wording their points of attention.

Now if more world leaders would follow this advice...

Now back to the car: I personally never seen this: why is there a chassis# plate riveted in the boot? Is it a US thing? I've seen them on steering columns before.
Is this same-same-but-different?
Thanks @eriknetherlands for asking. Seeing the level of discussion I keep myself quiet. :D
Thanks also to @lip277 for explanation. It is another "Something" which differentiates usual users from Experts in E9 Domain. ;-)

As the emotions are low I would like to touch one topic. It is about Vehicle Number:

1710270585217.png


1710270634326.png


What kind of marks should be stamped outside the number? Nothing, cross, asterix... ?

Probably it has been already discussed somewhere but having so big Audience, I'm expecting short answer right away. :D

Regarding the car ... It is good to be driven #"I would like to drive and have fun!" but it has some points for future improvements once the driver will drive enough to find time and money to make it (or not).
 

eriknetherlands

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On the firewall and the block pad, the VIN has + on either side
I often find myself nosing through the csl site of Yannick, looking for old pictures of a certain area. I then copy-paste images from 10 or 20 unrestored cars and voila, you have a reference.
No guarantees, but it's a quick way to establish a good starting point.
 

Krzysztof

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Thanks Guys!

But does it mean that the numbers on the first picture with missing crosses were renovated too much?
 
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