1972 3.0 In Scottsdale

[Stan]

In September 2013, Andrew thought the car was worth 21k "all day long". I payed 16k for it. In retrospect it was probably worth more like 10k.

When Mario first looked at the car, he anticipted 6-8k or so for rust remediation. No known safety concerns at the time.

Then they started taking it apart...

Mario: "We have removed the interior floor under coating, the outer rocker panel covers and exposed all the rust. The rust is much more extreme than anticipated...

Estimate:
220 Hours labor @ $67.00 hour $14700.00
plus sheet metal parts
2 rocker panels
4 floor pieces
2 side lower fender
1 left side lower A-Pillar
2 lower rear quarter panel repair panels

All the above parts are from W & N

+paint and materials as we'll need to do paint work on the outside

+/- 850.00"

I figured I would put in $15k for rust remediation, $5k to redo interior, and $5k for mechanical upgrades and have a nice coupe for $40,000, which is roughly what a nice coupe was selling for in late 2013. But I would know exactly what I have. So ai thought.

As work progressed, more rust was discovered...

Mario: "Taking into consideration the new repairs needed, Steve estimates there is another 3 weeks of labor in the car to remove all the rusted rocker components, weld in replacements, and finish all of the rust repair. This will get the car to the paint/primer ready stage, at which point paint and reassembly would be the next step.
The invoice does not reflect any of the new rocker/b-pillar support pieces that need to be ordered from Germany."

Estimate: $4576.24"

And then the kicker...

Mario: "On a side note, during repairs along the right side of the car we found that there were never any spot welds across the bottom of the A-Pillar and the bottom of the B-Pillar! Had our repairs not gone as deep as we did, in a short period of time along with improvements to suspension and other items on this car, this car would have had door alignment issues and would have driven like a Flexible Flyer!"

Final bill after partial paint was close to 24k!!!

When I picked up the car from Bow....Mario told me he road tested the car and thought it is one of the most solid coupes he has ever driven.

Bez, welcome to the world of old cars. Every car has its surprises. My coupe was very dry but when all the paint was removed prior accident damage was revealed. More body parts needed, frame straightening etc. BUT I am delighted with the results and the diligence of VSR to return to me a coupe that exceeded my expectations. That is why they are called estimates.
My mom had breast cancer, when she had an intestinal blockage surgery was required. During which they discovered metastasis everywhere. Not the fault of the surgeon or her primary care physician. Your car is likely worth more than $21K now, probably closer to $40. So $24 + $16 = $40K and you are in good shape - enjoy

 

[Gransin]

I know VSR is well respected, but I have to question how it would take a shop three labor weeks (or 68 hours according to your bill rate and cost) to do the rockers.

I look forward to cracking open my car. I am under the naive assumption that i can cut, remove, and re-weld prefabricated sheet metal pieces in under 70 hours. I am slow at everything I do. It will take me two months, but I don't think it will take 70 hours.

I don't see that it would be any problem at all to spend 68 hours to do both rockers if you have to dig into the reinforcement-piece inside the rocker + lower B-post and where the rocker meets the rear wheelhousing. You can never just cut, remove, replace anything because new pieces never fits 100%, and while you're in there you'll probably see something else that needs attention and end up fabricating small pieces by yourself, and that is just extremely time consuming.

One can, of course, just cut/remove/replace but the result wont be near perfect, and from what I've heard I think VSR is a shop that does their job to a very high standard, and that equals a lot of work hours.

But it's hard to say without knowing exactly what or how much was done to the rockers in question. What I meant was I did not lift my eyebrows when I saw the billed hours. I don't even want to know how many hours we spent on my car replacing just the rockers..

Just wanted to share my point of view.

 

[Markos]

Robert,

Thanks for chiming in. You are speaking with authority on this, so I'll take your estimate at face value.

 

[viphoto]

The cowl/engine compartment has ZERO rust, and I can only see one spot on the floors that's maybe 1/2" long that there's a tiny rustout.

You got lucky...did you pull the old sound deadening tar pads up? While the Hawaii car I bought really has been pretty minimal rust so far (non sunroof car garaged for a good bit of its life) , however there was some hiding under the tar pads in the recessed well (I cut out a 2 inch by 6 inch section of rot on the passenger side and a 3x5 inch section under the pedals on the other side and patched one small hole in the rear foot well..luckily a clutch master leak protected the drivers side pretty well Ended up cutting some good metal from one of the parts Bavaria's I bought as well as using a couple of the big metal floor plugs ..these cars sure are much nicer to weld on than the 240z I just finished and sold (for $102 less than I paid for the Hawaii car :smile
For those looking there are exceptions to the $8k, $15k and $20k+ examples people keep quoting..and I was lucky enough to get one.

 

[digixjairo]

Well, It looks like this got a price chop and the price is looking more attractive.
I still would hesitate as to what is lurking under the 2005 paint job. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-BMW-Other-/331735891014?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

[teahead]

Well, It looks like this got a price chop and the price is looking more attractive.
I still would hesitate as to what is lurking under the 2005 paint job. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-BMW-Other-/331735891014?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

Stay clear, unless you can get it for $25k, and even then...

 

[digixjairo]

Price slashed again http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/331770558785

 

[teahead]

Still too much rot for that kind of coin. $15k.

 

[Bez]

I would be really surprised if you can buy a coupe that has had the interior restored for 15k in today's market....that is more like 2013 prices. 22-26 is probably reasonable....but have a proper PPI and be prepared for at least another 20k for rust remediation and paint!!

 

[aearch]

empty

he forgot to add the engine compartment stickers
would make it look a lot better with a simple task

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

I don't know, at 29K the way things are going it looks like it might be a fair deal. Allot of nice stuff in there and looks pretty clean- at least they are pointing out the imperfections.

 

[LarryE9E10]

had a look

Was invited to an open house at Brighton Motors while in Scottsdale last week for the auctions. They specialize in Lotus, and I did not discover the coupe until I had several drinks, as it was parked out on the street rather than in the lot with Colin Chapman's favored children. Paint was not flawless, but you would be hard-pressed to see that the color had been changed from looking at the exterior. Don't recall significant bubbling, but my consciousness was definitely altered. Was not able to crawl around or inspect the traditional problem areas. Interior very nice except for the garish black speaker cover in the dashboard.

If looking for a couple, this one warrants a more considered and sober inspection.

 

[teahead]

$30k, plus $20k in rust removal and paint.

You're already at $50k, which will buy you some pretty nice cars. I guess it depends on what you can afford for an entry price and willingness to shell out more over the long-term.

 

[adawil2002]

The nice thing about these cars is one can do them in stages. Doesn't need to be done all at once in an all or nothing project. This car looks like a CS someone could enjoy for years before undertaking a restoration/rust remediation scenario.

I enjoyed Athena for 3 years before professionals began addressing rust and paint over the past 3 winters.

 

[Stevehose]

Glad I am not the only one boozing my way through coupe enjoyment!

Was invited to an open house at Brighton Motors while in Scottsdale last week for the auctions. They specialize in Lotus, and I did not discover the coupe until I had several drinks, as it was parked out on the street rather than in the lot with Colin Chapman's favored children. Paint was not flawless, but you would be hard-pressed to see that the color had been changed from looking at the exterior. Don't recall significant bubbling, but my consciousness was definitely altered. Was not able to crawl around or inspect the traditional problem areas. Interior very nice except for the garish black speaker cover in the dashboard.

If looking for a couple, this one warrants a more considered and sober inspection.

 

[JFENG]

Wow that sounds like an ordeal. It confirms my assertion that a 15K car is the worst kind of e9 investment. I know VSR is well respected, but I have to question how it would take a shop three labor weeks (or 68 hours according to your bill rate and cost) to do the rockers.
.

I've done a couple restorations myself (old BMWs), including replacing quarters and front rad supports, full suspension tear downs, repaints etc. But I'm no expert metal worker. I've seen many E9s in all states of decay and resto at VSR1, and the common factor across all is Mario wants to and does do a proper job. Yes I agree that another shop might do it faster and cheaper, but with no guarantee that the work is correct to the original design of the car, or that weak points in the design are addressed with improvements developed and proven on many E9's. In the end a documented VSR1 resto will enhance the value of your car over a resto done by most other shops. I personally would pick VSR over Paul Russell, at equal cost. And I'd pick PR if doing a 300SL (no ill never own anything remotely as expensive as one of those).

John

 

[Bez]

+1 VSR's body and paint expert Steve does amazing work. I would not hesitate about having another BMW restoration done at VSR.

My only complaint is about the little things that should have been discussed (i.e., they took off all the beltline trim but never asked if I wanted to have them sent to Speedway for refinishing. I didn't have the insight to do it because I am a novice to coupe restoration but they certainly are not. Now it would cost a couple grand to have someone remove them and send them to Speedway!!!

 

[teahead]

I wonder what it sold for?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-BMW-Ot...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557