1972 BMW 3.0 CSL E9 Auction

[Barry.b]

Well, if you are repairing your special, limited-production automobile and you can't get the specific rare parts that are what sets it apart from regular-run production cars then there's a chance that you've reduced the value of yours by just a bit. Can't find the thin carpets that CSL models have? Maybe not a big impact. No alloy door skins or hood? That's a much bigger deal. But as long as it's a real CSL as confirmed by its genuine VIN, then it's always going to be a CSL albeit a somewhat modified one. Now we modify our normal production E9 with an eye towards performance, not worrying too much about value because we like to drive them. Owning a limited production car is a different horse and a lot of the value is the originality of the car, the things that set it apart from the rest. Less original should mean less value. A problem arises when a car has been repaired with non-genuine parts and that isn't disclosed to potential buyers. A heavier gauge fender is hard to distinguish from a thinner CSL one, so it should be called out in the description, but not all sellers will be that honest with money on the line. As genuine, accurate CSL models become rarer, their value should increase, but that increase will spur 'tribute' restorations hoping to also cash in.

My two cents.

i don't find it that strange.... Why would a 50 year old car never have changed chassis ? and if so , think accident , is that a big problem ?
Of course changing a CS into a CSL with those papers is just flipper money ...

I wonder how many CSL were built and how many are on the road ? Big money always get's the attention of getting a part of the game easy....

I think a 50 year old car should not change its chassis, or maybe I should say it should not change its chassis number.
I could see some situations where it might be okay to rebuild maybe a race car with a certified replacement chassis from the manufacturer if they are willing to supply one in a controlled situation that means the old chassis is officially de comisioned and destroyed so that it can never turn up again on any market.
I’m only talking hypothetically now as I have no actual personal experience of owning such a car.
I have 3 cars from the early to mid 70’s and none of them have had their chassis or chassis number changed .
I personally would never want to own a car which is not on its original chassis number.
There are at least 3 main problems with cars with altered vins :
1. it is illegal here in my country. So you never actually own that car because it’s a different car ( and it can get crushed if found to be altered )
2. crashed cars get acquired by people working illegally. In some criminal situations, they have a crashed or damaged car that may not have been reported as crashed or damaged , lets just say you had a 1970’s car that was maybe involved in a rear engine bay fire or was crashed badly in the rear , then they get someone to go out and steal “ to order “ , someone else’s car with a similar body and they then get the vin swapped.
Then whoever was the owner of the similar bodied car , in that situation has just been robbed and whoever buys the 1970’s car in unknowingly driving around in a stolen car .
3. if the car was rebuilt incorrectly and if it was in an accident then it may not withstand the crash impact and could cause problems for the occupants of the car.
I do know that could be said for any repaired or restored cars , for instance I have definitely done structural repairs to my e9 when I replaced the sills on it.

Anyway that’s my thoughts on vin swapping.
But again hopefully the csl which this thread originated with, will get rebuilt properly some day.
And good luck to whoever has just purchased it , and maybe we might be lucky enough to see a rebuild thread on it here some day

 

[sandhu]

Hi lads
What is this car? , in your opinion ie cs or CSL ??????

BMW E9 3.0 CSL - restored
Back to BMW for Sale
Vehicle price: £158,995
Registration date: 1973
Mileage: 31,050
Transmission type: Manual
Vehicle BMW E9 3.0 CSL - restored
A unique opportunity to own one of the few fully restored E9 CSLs in RHD.

This handsome and thoughtfully restored CSL is known to us from way back – it looks and drives like the fast GT it was always meant to be. Having been fully inspected by none other than the Legend that is John Castle, veteran of the BMW Car Club CSL register – who has seen more CSLs than most humans alive – who better to pass the job to?! Have a read through John's comprehensive report, which describes the car to a tee....

John Castle:
"This car is well known to the BMW Car Club CS Register. The present owner is the 5th with the 3rd owner keeping the car for 26 years in a heated garage. During this period the engine was replaced by Munich Legends using one of the last BMW factory reconditioned engines available. It was then sold at H&H Auctions on 21 June 2014 to a well-known amateur competition driver who sadly died before having any work undertaken on the car. The car was re-sold by H&H on 15 April 2015, the auctioneer having consulted the Club on the description to be used in the auction catalogue because the VIN number stamped into the shell was VIN 2285487 although the car had been re-shelled using a CSA shell in the late 1980s. The car was sold to the present owner.

Bodywork & Paintwork.
The car was stripped and sent to Envirostrip for the removal of all old paint and rust. It was then fully prepared and repainted in Polaris Metallic Silver (Code 060). It will be finished with high quality BMW Motorsport (Martini) side stripes. The underside was painted and then treated with U-Pol Raptor, a very modern underbody protective coating. Both bumpers and the door and window trims were re-chromed. New BMW anodised waist trims were fitted with "in period"* new bonnet, wing and front grilles. All the green tinted window glass was reused. Overall this painstaking restoration of the bodywork has been to the very highest standard and the shell is probably in a better condition through the use of modern materials than when it was manufactured.

Chassis & Suspension.
All the suspension parts were de-rusted primed and finished in satin black. All new suspension bushes were fitted and the front wishbones replaced with new. Both brake servos were replaced, the brake callipers overhauled, all new brake pipes were fitted with new discs and pads. The two fuel lines are new. New springs calibrated to lower the car by about 20 mm have been fitted (This matches the left hand drive CSLs) with Bilstein Sports shock absorbers. Thicker anti -roll bars have been fitted front and back. The power steering pump was replaced.

All interior wood has been re-veneered, the interior panels have been restored and re-used and the Scheel seats have been recovered. Headrests are being made. The car has a completely new "in period" carpet set. The roof lining is the original.

Engine & Mechanicals
Reconditioned CSL engines were to the final specification of 3277cc, introduced for the 3.3 litre E3 saloons in 1974, compared to the original UK City Pack displacement of 3003 cc when the car was built in early 1973.
The cylinder head has reground valve seats, new valve stem seals and has been internally cleaned and pressure tested. The cylinder bores were checked and glaze busted, all bearings and oil seals replaced. The water pump was replaced and the starter motor and alternator tested and re-used. The radiator has been replaced by an alloy crossflow type to benefit from their increased heat transfer potential.

A gas flowed stainless steel exhaust is fitted.
The gear box and differential were checked and the three differential oil seals replaced. The propeller shaft was completely overhauled with new universal joints and centre bearing and then re-balanced.

Wheels and Tyres
The car has been fitted with new, replica, Alpina 16" wheels with Michelin 205/55 ZR16 Pilot Exalto tyre This is a popular upgrade to take advantage of modern tyre technology. The old 14" wheels have been retained to accompany the car if a future owner wants to re-fit them.

Summary
The VIN number of the car shows that it was in the last batch of 500 right-hand drive "City Pack" versions of the CSL built for the UK market. Production finished in February 1973 and the car would have been stored in Belgium before being called forward to the UK when sold in September. The reason it was re-shelled is not know. 2285486 will therefore be slightly heavier than when it was built because the main outer shell panels will be in 18swg steel rather than the thinner original 22swg. But the weight difference will be marginal because many of the lighter weight body panels have not been available since the 1980s and almost all CSLs which have been restored since then will have used the 18swg panels, which are still available. The car has retained the iconic lightweight alloy bonnet, doors and boot lid which gave the car its "Lichtmetal" (L) suffix – CSL. The owner has chosen to make the re-shelling clear by omitting the "+" signs which BMW stamped into the shell at the time, before and after the VIN number, to denote that it not the original shell. This is very commendable.

The engine is a genuine BMW factory reconditioned unit as it is coded 33 indicating 3.3 litres (BMW rounded up the displacement), E indicates "Petrol Injection" and "D" indicates D-Jetronic. 1096 is the serial number and "A" indicates remanufactured. By good fortune this upgrade will compensate for the slightly heavier car because it increases the mid-range engine torque by 23ft/lbs.
This car, as restored, is of outstanding appearance and condition making it almost a benchmark example of the City Pack CSL. More and more CSLs are being modified, either with 16" wheels, lowered suspension, upgraded engines, and 5 speed gearboxes to improve performance for modern road conditions. This car is modified by having a different shell but otherwise almost exactly replicating the original specification except for some additional safety and reliability modifications.

*The BMW E9 CSL coupe is becoming increasingly rare as all but the well maintained and/or restored models from the original batch of 500, such as this one, have been scrapped. At present it is estimated that there are about 220 cars remaining worldwide. Supply is outstripping demand. Most are owned and retained by enthusiasts so that few come to the open market and this is continuing to increase values significantly. BMW has a division devoted to old car support, BMW Classic, so that a range of the repair parts and panels are available for the specialist restoration sector in the UK. Reinstatement is now a very viable an option for an E9 in the event of an accident which might otherwise attract an insurance write-off."

It is worth noting that the valuation placed on this CSL by the club was significantly more than the current asking price....

Our technical team have carried out a fully comprehensive condition report and are very pleased with the result. Only a few minor tweeks and adjustments are needed – and will be done prior to the new owner taking possession – to make this one of the loveliest, most exciting and driveable BMW classic coupes available today. At Munich Legends we have had the privilege to work with many, if not the majority of the CSLs that ended up in the UK over the last 30 years. We rate this car as one of the nicest driving (its quick) and best presented CSLs you can buy.

For more information on this absolute gem, or to book a viewing, please contact our showroom team on [email protected] or call +44 1825 740456

Factory Equipment:

 

[Barry.b]

I

Hi lads
What is this car? , in your opinion ie cs or CSL ??????

BMW E9 3.0 CSL - restored
Back to BMW for Sale
Vehicle price: £158,995
Registration date: 1973
Mileage: 31,050
Transmission type: Manual
Vehicle BMW E9 3.0 CSL - restored
A unique opportunity to own one of the few fully restored E9 CSLs in RHD.

This handsome and thoughtfully restored CSL is known to us from way back – it looks and drives like the fast GT it was always meant to be. Having been fully inspected by none other than the Legend that is John Castle, veteran of the BMW Car Club CSL register – who has seen more CSLs than most humans alive – who better to pass the job to?! Have a read through John's comprehensive report, which describes the car to a tee....

John Castle:
"This car is well known to the BMW Car Club CS Register. The present owner is the 5th with the 3rd owner keeping the car for 26 years in a heated garage. During this period the engine was replaced by Munich Legends using one of the last BMW factory reconditioned engines available. It was then sold at H&H Auctions on 21 June 2014 to a well-known amateur competition driver who sadly died before having any work undertaken on the car. The car was re-sold by H&H on 15 April 2015, the auctioneer having consulted the Club on the description to be used in the auction catalogue because the VIN number stamped into the shell was VIN 2285487 although the car had been re-shelled using a CSA shell in the late 1980s. The car was sold to the present owner.

Bodywork & Paintwork.
The car was stripped and sent to Envirostrip for the removal of all old paint and rust. It was then fully prepared and repainted in Polaris Metallic Silver (Code 060). It will be finished with high quality BMW Motorsport (Martini) side stripes. The underside was painted and then treated with U-Pol Raptor, a very modern underbody protective coating. Both bumpers and the door and window trims were re-chromed. New BMW anodised waist trims were fitted with "in period"* new bonnet, wing and front grilles. All the green tinted window glass was reused. Overall this painstaking restoration of the bodywork has been to the very highest standard and the shell is probably in a better condition through the use of modern materials than when it was manufactured.

Chassis & Suspension.
All the suspension parts were de-rusted primed and finished in satin black. All new suspension bushes were fitted and the front wishbones replaced with new. Both brake servos were replaced, the brake callipers overhauled, all new brake pipes were fitted with new discs and pads. The two fuel lines are new. New springs calibrated to lower the car by about 20 mm have been fitted (This matches the left hand drive CSLs) with Bilstein Sports shock absorbers. Thicker anti -roll bars have been fitted front and back. The power steering pump was replaced.

All interior wood has been re-veneered, the interior panels have been restored and re-used and the Scheel seats have been recovered. Headrests are being made. The car has a completely new "in period" carpet set. The roof lining is the original.

Engine & Mechanicals
Reconditioned CSL engines were to the final specification of 3277cc, introduced for the 3.3 litre E3 saloons in 1974, compared to the original UK City Pack displacement of 3003 cc when the car was built in early 1973.
The cylinder head has reground valve seats, new valve stem seals and has been internally cleaned and pressure tested. The cylinder bores were checked and glaze busted, all bearings and oil seals replaced. The water pump was replaced and the starter motor and alternator tested and re-used. The radiator has been replaced by an alloy crossflow type to benefit from their increased heat transfer potential.

A gas flowed stainless steel exhaust is fitted.
The gear box and differential were checked and the three differential oil seals replaced. The propeller shaft was completely overhauled with new universal joints and centre bearing and then re-balanced.

Wheels and Tyres
The car has been fitted with new, replica, Alpina 16" wheels with Michelin 205/55 ZR16 Pilot Exalto tyre This is a popular upgrade to take advantage of modern tyre technology. The old 14" wheels have been retained to accompany the car if a future owner wants to re-fit them.

Summary
The VIN number of the car shows that it was in the last batch of 500 right-hand drive "City Pack" versions of the CSL built for the UK market. Production finished in February 1973 and the car would have been stored in Belgium before being called forward to the UK when sold in September. The reason it was re-shelled is not know. 2285486 will therefore be slightly heavier than when it was built because the main outer shell panels will be in 18swg steel rather than the thinner original 22swg. But the weight difference will be marginal because many of the lighter weight body panels have not been available since the 1980s and almost all CSLs which have been restored since then will have used the 18swg panels, which are still available. The car has retained the iconic lightweight alloy bonnet, doors and boot lid which gave the car its "Lichtmetal" (L) suffix – CSL. The owner has chosen to make the re-shelling clear by omitting the "+" signs which BMW stamped into the shell at the time, before and after the VIN number, to denote that it not the original shell. This is very commendable.

The engine is a genuine BMW factory reconditioned unit as it is coded 33 indicating 3.3 litres (BMW rounded up the displacement), E indicates "Petrol Injection" and "D" indicates D-Jetronic. 1096 is the serial number and "A" indicates remanufactured. By good fortune this upgrade will compensate for the slightly heavier car because it increases the mid-range engine torque by 23ft/lbs.
This car, as restored, is of outstanding appearance and condition making it almost a benchmark example of the City Pack CSL. More and more CSLs are being modified, either with 16" wheels, lowered suspension, upgraded engines, and 5 speed gearboxes to improve performance for modern road conditions. This car is modified by having a different shell but otherwise almost exactly replicating the original specification except for some additional safety and reliability modifications.

*The BMW E9 CSL coupe is becoming increasingly rare as all but the well maintained and/or restored models from the original batch of 500, such as this one, have been scrapped. At present it is estimated that there are about 220 cars remaining worldwide. Supply is outstripping demand. Most are owned and retained by enthusiasts so that few come to the open market and this is continuing to increase values significantly. BMW has a division devoted to old car support, BMW Classic, so that a range of the repair parts and panels are available for the specialist restoration sector in the UK. Reinstatement is now a very viable an option for an E9 in the event of an accident which might otherwise attract an insurance write-off."

It is worth noting that the valuation placed on this CSL by the club was significantly more than the current asking price....

Our technical team have carried out a fully comprehensive condition report and are very pleased with the result. Only a few minor tweeks and adjustments are needed – and will be done prior to the new owner taking possession – to make this one of the loveliest, most exciting and driveable BMW classic coupes available today. At Munich Legends we have had the privilege to work with many, if not the majority of the CSLs that ended up in the UK over the last 30 years. We rate this car as one of the nicest driving (its quick) and best presented CSLs you can buy.

For more information on this absolute gem, or to book a viewing, please contact our showroom team on [email protected] or call +44 1825 740456

Factory Equipment:

I would think
That it is a really really nice CSA.
Which has been built up using all CSL running gear interior and all CSL specific parts.
It is a CSA which HAS had its vin number changed.
It is not a CSL .

 

[BMW Pete]

Hi lads
What is this car? , in your opinion ie cs or CSL ??????

BMW E9 3.0 CSL - restored
Back to BMW for Sale
Vehicle price: £158,995
Registration date: 1973
Mileage: 31,050
Transmission type: Manual
Vehicle BMW E9 3.0 CSL - restored
A unique opportunity to own one of the few fully restored E9 CSLs in RHD.

This handsome and thoughtfully restored CSL is known to us from way back – it looks and drives like the fast GT it was always meant to be. Having been fully inspected by none other than the Legend that is John Castle, veteran of the BMW Car Club CSL register – who has seen more CSLs than most humans alive – who better to pass the job to?! Have a read through John's comprehensive report, which describes the car to a tee....

John Castle:
"This car is well known to the BMW Car Club CS Register. The present owner is the 5th with the 3rd owner keeping the car for 26 years in a heated garage. During this period the engine was replaced by Munich Legends using one of the last BMW factory reconditioned engines available. It was then sold at H&H Auctions on 21 June 2014 to a well-known amateur competition driver who sadly died before having any work undertaken on the car. The car was re-sold by H&H on 15 April 2015, the auctioneer having consulted the Club on the description to be used in the auction catalogue because the VIN number stamped into the shell was VIN 2285487 although the car had been re-shelled using a CSA shell in the late 1980s. The car was sold to the present owner.

Bodywork & Paintwork.
The car was stripped and sent to Envirostrip for the removal of all old paint and rust. It was then fully prepared and repainted in Polaris Metallic Silver (Code 060). It will be finished with high quality BMW Motorsport (Martini) side stripes. The underside was painted and then treated with U-Pol Raptor, a very modern underbody protective coating. Both bumpers and the door and window trims were re-chromed. New BMW anodised waist trims were fitted with "in period"* new bonnet, wing and front grilles. All the green tinted window glass was reused. Overall this painstaking restoration of the bodywork has been to the very highest standard and the shell is probably in a better condition through the use of modern materials than when it was manufactured.

Chassis & Suspension.
All the suspension parts were de-rusted primed and finished in satin black. All new suspension bushes were fitted and the front wishbones replaced with new. Both brake servos were replaced, the brake callipers overhauled, all new brake pipes were fitted with new discs and pads. The two fuel lines are new. New springs calibrated to lower the car by about 20 mm have been fitted (This matches the left hand drive CSLs) with Bilstein Sports shock absorbers. Thicker anti -roll bars have been fitted front and back. The power steering pump was replaced.

All interior wood has been re-veneered, the interior panels have been restored and re-used and the Scheel seats have been recovered. Headrests are being made. The car has a completely new "in period" carpet set. The roof lining is the original.

Engine & Mechanicals
Reconditioned CSL engines were to the final specification of 3277cc, introduced for the 3.3 litre E3 saloons in 1974, compared to the original UK City Pack displacement of 3003 cc when the car was built in early 1973.
The cylinder head has reground valve seats, new valve stem seals and has been internally cleaned and pressure tested. The cylinder bores were checked and glaze busted, all bearings and oil seals replaced. The water pump was replaced and the starter motor and alternator tested and re-used. The radiator has been replaced by an alloy crossflow type to benefit from their increased heat transfer potential.

A gas flowed stainless steel exhaust is fitted.
The gear box and differential were checked and the three differential oil seals replaced. The propeller shaft was completely overhauled with new universal joints and centre bearing and then re-balanced.

Wheels and Tyres
The car has been fitted with new, replica, Alpina 16" wheels with Michelin 205/55 ZR16 Pilot Exalto tyre This is a popular upgrade to take advantage of modern tyre technology. The old 14" wheels have been retained to accompany the car if a future owner wants to re-fit them.

Summary
The VIN number of the car shows that it was in the last batch of 500 right-hand drive "City Pack" versions of the CSL built for the UK market. Production finished in February 1973 and the car would have been stored in Belgium before being called forward to the UK when sold in September. The reason it was re-shelled is not know. 2285486 will therefore be slightly heavier than when it was built because the main outer shell panels will be in 18swg steel rather than the thinner original 22swg. But the weight difference will be marginal because many of the lighter weight body panels have not been available since the 1980s and almost all CSLs which have been restored since then will have used the 18swg panels, which are still available. The car has retained the iconic lightweight alloy bonnet, doors and boot lid which gave the car its "Lichtmetal" (L) suffix – CSL. The owner has chosen to make the re-shelling clear by omitting the "+" signs which BMW stamped into the shell at the time, before and after the VIN number, to denote that it not the original shell. This is very commendable.

The engine is a genuine BMW factory reconditioned unit as it is coded 33 indicating 3.3 litres (BMW rounded up the displacement), E indicates "Petrol Injection" and "D" indicates D-Jetronic. 1096 is the serial number and "A" indicates remanufactured. By good fortune this upgrade will compensate for the slightly heavier car because it increases the mid-range engine torque by 23ft/lbs.
This car, as restored, is of outstanding appearance and condition making it almost a benchmark example of the City Pack CSL. More and more CSLs are being modified, either with 16" wheels, lowered suspension, upgraded engines, and 5 speed gearboxes to improve performance for modern road conditions. This car is modified by having a different shell but otherwise almost exactly replicating the original specification except for some additional safety and reliability modifications.

*The BMW E9 CSL coupe is becoming increasingly rare as all but the well maintained and/or restored models from the original batch of 500, such as this one, have been scrapped. At present it is estimated that there are about 220 cars remaining worldwide. Supply is outstripping demand. Most are owned and retained by enthusiasts so that few come to the open market and this is continuing to increase values significantly. BMW has a division devoted to old car support, BMW Classic, so that a range of the repair parts and panels are available for the specialist restoration sector in the UK. Reinstatement is now a very viable an option for an E9 in the event of an accident which might otherwise attract an insurance write-off."

It is worth noting that the valuation placed on this CSL by the club was significantly more than the current asking price....

Our technical team have carried out a fully comprehensive condition report and are very pleased with the result. Only a few minor tweeks and adjustments are needed – and will be done prior to the new owner taking possession – to make this one of the loveliest, most exciting and driveable BMW classic coupes available today. At Munich Legends we have had the privilege to work with many, if not the majority of the CSLs that ended up in the UK over the last 30 years. We rate this car as one of the nicest driving (its quick) and best presented CSLs you can buy.

For more information on this absolute gem, or to book a viewing, please contact our showroom team on [email protected] or call +44 1825 740456

Factory Equipment:

This car is a CS - period.

I have had this discussion so many times and of course with values rising, we will sadly no doubt see more and more.. The body/chassis - ie the actual body the car was born as, is the car. John Castle is a nice guy and I am sure this is may be a nice car, but I don't know if his words have been misinterpreted or changed in some ways, but this description is simply wrong.

There is an Alpina B12 5.7 going around the world with a similar story, they used a 850 CSI body after the original car was destroyed and now claim it is the Alpina B12 - it is not, its a 850 CSI with Alpina bits from a destroyed car.

I own an E21 1981 323i, which has all the Schnitzer Turbo parts transferred to it from the original Schnitzer 323i Turbo that was destroyed in the UK. They found a new 323i body shell and transferred everything possible. I even have the chassis plate for the original Schnitzer Turbo - which will never be put on the car in my ownership. Therefore, I own a E21 323I with all the Schnitzer Turbo parts, I do not, to be very clear, I do not own a Schnitzer 323i Turbo.

Race cars are a different story (much longer explanation) but street cars are simple, the chassis number is the identity and if you have to transfer a cars identity...........well - I may like to think I look like Brad Pitt or can run like Jesse Owens but calling myself either will not make me Brad Pitt or Jesse Owens.

 

[Barry.b]

I

I would think
That it is a really really nice CSA.
Which has been built up using all CSL running gear interior and all CSL specific parts.
It is a CSA which HAS had its vin number changed.
It is not a CSL .

This car is a CS - period.

I have had this discussion so many times and of course with values rising, we will sadly no doubt see more and more.. The body/chassis - ie the actual body the car was born as, is the car. John Castle is a nice guy and I am sure this is may be a nice car, but I don't know if his words have been misinterpreted or changed in some ways, but this description is simply wrong.

There is an Alpina B12 5.7 going around the world with a similar story, they used a 850 CSI body after the original car was destroyed and now claim it is the Alpina B12 - it is not, its a 850 CSI with Alpina bits from a destroyed car.

I own an E21 1981 323i, which has all the Schnitzer Turbo parts transferred to it from the original Schnitzer 323i Turbo that was destroyed in the UK. They found a new 323i body shell and transferred everything possible. I even have the chassis plate for the original Schnitzer Turbo - which will never be put on the car in my ownership. Therefore, I own a E21 323I with all the Schnitzer Turbo parts, I do not, to be very clear, I do not own a Schnitzer 323i Turbo.

Race cars are a different story (much longer explanation) but street cars are simple, the chassis number is the identity and if you have to transfer a cars identity...........well - I may like to think I look like Brad Pitt or can run like Jesse Owens but calling myself either will not make me Brad Pitt or Jesse Owens.

I think the fact that you , yourself are saying that you do not own a Schnitzer 323i turbo.
Is to be applauded !!
And the fact that you refrained from the temptation of using the schnitzer chassis plate to make your car more than it is should also be applauded !!!
Well done and thank you for your integrity and honesty !

 

[xjan99]

Swapping a VIN generally means a stolen/shady vehicle is made legal.

With classics, like this CSL for instance - how much of it has to be repaired instead of swapping over parts from another CS is another discussion. For instance, if the whole rear half of a car is total damage, and you swap in a new one, it is still the original car as a whole etc...

I also own a 1M Coupe (see avatar) that was driven into a tree sideways so the body was fully crooked, no point to try to repair it. However, the car now lives on with all salvageable parts installed on another 1-series coupe (120D). I did not swap over the VIN and went through the trouble of registering the 120D to have all the 1M parts fitted though. I just did not think it would be fair to also swap the firewall with the VIN, although during the process of legalizing the "new" car, I regretted it when bureaucracy tried to overwhelm me . Anyway, I did go this route at that time also because factory blank-VIN 1M bodyshells were NLA and the bodyshell difference is only in the rear quarter panels+outer wheel wells on this model. If BMW had sold me a new bodyshell, they would have stamped the 1M VIN onto it too, so the "identity" can be legally transfered to a new shell if needed actually.

 

[Barry.b]

Swapping a VIN generally means a stolen/shady vehicle is made legal.

With classics, like this CSL for instance - how much of it has to be repaired instead of swapping over parts from another CS is another discussion. For instance, if the whole rear half of a car is total damage, and you swap in a new one, it is still the original car as a whole etc...

I also own a 1M Coupe (see avatar) that was driven into a tree sideways so the body was fully crooked, no point to try to repair it. However, the car now lives on with all salvageable parts installed on another 1-series coupe (120D). I did not swap over the VIN and went through the trouble of registering the 120D to have all the 1M parts fitted though. I just did not think it would be fair to also swap the firewall with the VIN, although during the process of legalizing the "new" car, I regretted it when bureaucracy tried to overwhelm me . Anyway, I did go this route at that time also because factory blank-VIN 1M bodyshells were NLA and the bodyshell difference is only in the rear quarter panels+outer wheel wells on this model. If BMW had sold me a new bodyshell, they would have stamped the 1M VIN onto it too, so the "identity" can be legally transfered to a new shell if needed actually.

Okay
I didn’t realise that Bmw themselves would do that on a brand new shell.
I assume they would only do that for a certified trusted vendor.

Did you leave the 120d badges on your “new” 1M ?
It sure would give the boy racers some surprise at the traffic lights

 

[Barry.b]

Okay
I didn’t realise that Bmw themselves would do that on a brand new shell.
I assume they would only do that for a certified trusted vendor.

Did you leave the 120d badges on your “new” 1M ?
It sure would give the boy racers some surprise at the traffic lights

By the way , I am familiar with red tape .
I had to get a bit inventive to overcome some when I imported my car into Ireland.
See below

Is this an E9 engine

Barry, Your VIN is a LHD coupe delivered to the UK, it has a 2265xxx VIN, a RHD CSi has a 435xxxx VIN. RHD csi also came with 2264XXX vin numbers ??

e9coupe.com

 

[BMW Pete]

Swapping a VIN generally means a stolen/shady vehicle is made legal.

With classics, like this CSL for instance - how much of it has to be repaired instead of swapping over parts from another CS is another discussion. For instance, if the whole rear half of a car is total damage, and you swap in a new one, it is still the original car as a whole etc...

I also own a 1M Coupe (see avatar) that was driven into a tree sideways so the body was fully crooked, no point to try to repair it. However, the car now lives on with all salvageable parts installed on another 1-series coupe (120D). I did not swap over the VIN and went through the trouble of registering the 120D to have all the 1M parts fitted though. I just did not think it would be fair to also swap the firewall with the VIN, although during the process of legalizing the "new" car, I regretted it when bureaucracy tried to overwhelm me . Anyway, I did go this route at that time also because factory blank-VIN 1M bodyshells were NLA and the bodyshell difference is only in the rear quarter panels+outer wheel wells on this model. If BMW had sold me a new bodyshell, they would have stamped the 1M VIN onto it too, so the "identity" can be legally transfered to a new shell if needed actually.

Hi @xjan99,

I think we are talking about different things here. The car being discussed had a body shell change, using a body shell from a car that already had an identity, so I think (or hope)we all are agreeing - what it is and what it isn't.

Your car used a 120D shell and you have identified it as such, fantastic and thank you for being honest.

Your comment of BMW restamping a shell for a street car, sounds rather strange to me, but, as I have never discussed this strangeness with BMW (I will do now) I will take your words as given (I have many times had the discussion on historic race cars).

But I have to ask, should BMW restamp a street body shell, then surely they would identify it as a re-shell in some manner, either with asterisks either side of the number (I have seen this on an engine) or in some other way, therefore identifying it is not the original body -otherwise they could leave themselves open for litigation in the future?

Did they tell you, they would stamp the number with zero identification to show it was a re -shelled car??

 

[xjan99]

Okay
I didn’t realise that Bmw themselves would do that on a brand new shell.
I assume they would only do that for a certified trusted vendor.

Did you leave the 120d badges on your “new” 1M ?
It sure would give the boy racers some surprise at the traffic lights

Ha, the only way to tell it is a 120D shell is to run the VIN through a decoder or look at the registration documents .