3.0 CSL is undervalued... 74 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 3.0 (RHD) for $600 000!

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CSL 1973 said:
The Porsche 911 Carrera RS 3.0 is from the same happy 70s as the 3.0 CSL. Why should the CSL be much cheaper than let's say $400-500 000?

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/83051

Cheers
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Apples and Oranges. The RS has always been a more desirable collector car. The RS's seem to go in the $100-150K range for primo examples. This car is an RSR!!! not an RS and is uber rare. The RSR was delivered as a racecar version of the RS. Not to mention, just because he is asking $600K doesn't mean he will get $600K....
 
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There currently is a '74 RSR on ebay at buy it now $750,000.00 a buddy just
sold one in pieces having a resto done in high fives if I'm not mistaken,
and RS's for 100k-150k haven't been seen for 5 or six years current prices
are 250-350k often dependent on it being a touring vs light weight version.
The CSL's have long been sought after but I believe the more rare full
"bat-mobile" versions or cars with credible race provenance can command
comparable if not similar pricing....Bert
 
budge96 said:
There currently is a '74 RSR on ebay at buy it now $750,000.00 a buddy just
sold one in pieces having a resto done in high fives if I'm not mistaken,
and RS's for 100k-150k haven't been seen for 5 or six years current prices
are 250-350k often dependent on it being a touring vs light weight version.
The CSL's have long been sought after but I believe the more rare full
"bat-mobile" versions or cars with credible race provenance can command
comparable if not similar pricing....Bert
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The OP was comparing road CSL's to esencially a race car (RSR) the road RS's have been consistently higher than the road CSL's. Like I said Apples and Oranges. You don't compare road cars to race cars. Not to mention even the race CSL's with FIA history are going in the $250K range.


http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-auction-car.php/carno/2009-09-18-BONHAMS-241

The worm has turned on six figure auto sales. Pontiac GTO's were going for $150K a couple of years ago as well.
 
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In relation to the yellow 74 RHD 911 Carrera in the ad:

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...hp/carno/83051

If this car is sold for $600k, I think a certified CSL in good condition should have a price tag in the range of $150k-400k (depending on if it is a RHD, LHD, Bat or race etc). I'm pretty sure that all types of CSLs will have a significant increase in values over the next 5-10 years.

Just look at the price evaluation of the MB 190 SL, which today could have a price tag of 120 000 euro (approx $150k). Not so long time ago the MB 190 SL costed 7 000-10 000 euro (approx $10-12k).

Of course these cars are different type of collectors cars, but the general trend is clear. Classic sportcars will dramatically increase their values and I think the CSL belongs to the category of cars that today is really undervalued.

I might be wrong, but let's see in 5 years time what the market decide - the market is always right.

Cheers
 
There is definitely too big a gap between a touring 2.7rs and a road going csl on paper as both cars have similar boxes ticked. However to see such a gap close could take 20 years!
 
CSL 1973 said:
If this car is sold for $600k, I think a certified CSL in good condition should have a price tag in the range of $150k-400k
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The market pays whatever it wants to pay. You cannot just pick an arbitrary value and say 'I think my car is worth this much'. Supply and DEMAND.


CSL 1973 said:
Of course these cars are different type of collectors cars, but the general trend is clear. Classic sportcars will dramatically increase their values and I think the CSL belongs to the category of cars that today is really undervalued.
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What trend? Some guy is asking an astronomical price for his car and you think that's a trend? The trend is that we are in a severe economic downturn and buyers of six figure cars are few and far between.
 
Chicane-Are you going to address the question on RS values?

Do you have any recent sales data to indicate what top examples are selling for?
 
The nice examples of early lightweights and batmobiles are all over 100K now. The town kit cars are not as particularly interesting, especially to non BMW collectors. Even though there are only a handful, the Alpina CSL's are already in RS territory.
As more cars get restored the gap will close. As most know its very expensive to restore one of these cars.
About a year ago, the first or second RS off the production line was for sale for 500K, and it was a nut and bolt resto job.
 
I have been very surprised by how well classic cars have held up in the downturn. I put it down to the mistrust of cash as an asset and the small cost of carry in buying a classic car due to the low or negative real interest rates.

It is also true that for our particular era of cars a lot of people who were aspiring owners when they were new (say 23 in 1973) and now primarily at retirement age and so there has been a step change in demand.
 
Yes, as said before, the trend is clear; increasing values of collector cars like the CSL. 5-6 years ago nobody would belive that a CSL would be sold for 120 000 euro and today this is a fact. There will always be people with a lot of money and the demand for collector cars will always be there. Some fewer buyers during the economic hard times but buyers comes always back when the economy rises again.

For each time period of economic boost, there will be a new ATH record of CSL prices and the "cheapiest" CSLs will be more expensive. That's a clear trend since 10-15 years ago when the CSLs were like 5000 euro cars.

Cheers
 
Sorry boys , I am gonna have to agree with the chicster on this one, I on't think the 2 cars are comparable, the rs is a low production 2 seat racecar thats very lightweight, whereas the csl is still a big gt. That saidfully restored doc'd csl race cars are going for big bucks,as are outstanding examples eg Cary Idas csl.

Apart from being the holy grail fo the e9 clan , lets face it they are not that much better than a csi.

This is only my humble opinion so don't go off on me
 
CSL 1973 said:
Yes, as said before, the trend is clear; increasing values of collector cars like the CSL. 5-6 years ago nobody would belive that a CSL would be sold for 120 000 euro and today this is a fact.
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Standard CSL's are no going for $120K. Bat's are but you can get a CSL for $40-50K.
 
chicane said:
Standard CSL's are no going for $120K. Bat's are but you can get a CSL for $40-50K.
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The first series carb cars are selling for over 100K. I know of one just sold for 125K, and it needs a little work!
Theres just a big difference between the first series LW's and bats from the town kit cars that you are referring to in the 40-50K range.
Show me a carb CSL for 40-50K Ill buy all of them!
 
Here's a couple of other Porsche's in the same price range.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/ctd/1564286041.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/ctd/1564260303.html

I just checked my bank account and I'm a little short.

The ad forgets to mention that Bill Gates and Paul Allen both imported 959's in the late 80's and both of their cars were seized by customs where they sat for years in a Seattle warehouse. Gates and Allen were both big behind the scenes figures in getting the "show and display" legislation passed so that they can drive their cars. Just type in Porsche 959 in Wikipedia to learn more.

G-Man
 
'74 Carrera 3.0 RS

This yellow 3.0 RS was owned by Edmund Harris in recent years possibly one
of his personal cars said to be purchased from an ex F1 pilot...it has no race
history is primarily a street touring spec model which wasn't available state
side and likely has no real provenance to command rareified pricing as listed.
What I mean by RSR of course is the twinplug ,slidevalve 300 hsp mahle
centre-loc beast that dominated fIA and IMSA racing schedules in the mid to
late 70's.
This RS 3.0 has mechanical injection,single plug ignition, and approx 240 HP
600...400k US is reaching in this market particularly.
 
both 959s have been FS for quite some time via Bruce Canepa, the "Carl Nelson" of 959s.

As far as commenting between values of CSLs and RSRs, the conversation is a "non-starter" for me as these cars are in no way comparable. Why not draw a comparison between a Lusso and an early Quattroporte while we're at it?
 
One should never get involved in these conversations about money when it comes to classics, but geee is that beetle overpriced! Sorry all you porschesters out there: )

My money -if I had any- would be rather spent on some flimsy Italian tin than this Teutonic brute.

Cheers Andy
 
It's always interesting to provoce a little bit.

So let's go back to the facts. A Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 (209 hp) from 1973 has a market value around Euro 250 000 (approx $310 000).

I think the Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 could be compared with the 3.0 CSLs. It's from the same epoque, lightweight, more or less the same HPs and has a great race track record. The Porsche 911 Carrera 2.7 RS was, like the 3.0 CSL, also available with different comfort options such as power windows etc (and actually also sunroof).

Looking at the 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 for sale, in Germany and Europe today, the price range is between Euro 180k - 325k ($225k-400k) with most cars for sale around Euro 250k ($310k):

http://www.mobile.de/home/index.html?lang=en

I don't see any reasons why the BMW 3.0 CSL should not be priced the same, i.e. between Euro 180k-325k.

Top figures for the first 169 carb BMW 3.0 CSLs and the 167 bat ones. Little less for the approx 250-300 produced real light ones (1165 kg) from VIN 2275xxx range, then the city pack 2275xxx ones and then comes the RHD 2285xxx CSL.

The genuine 3.0 CSL Alpina (B2 and B2S) and the race CSLs (VIN 2275981-2276000) plays in another division and could be compared with Carrera RSR and should be valued around Euro 500k-600k ($625k-750k).

The Porsches have already reached this level but there is still a gap for the BMW 3.0 CSL to be filled. I'm pretty sure the Porsche will stay at this level and the CSLs will be moving up in price. It will take some 4-5 years but I think it is realistic. I would not be surprised if during 2010 a street 3.0 CSL would be sold (Auction?) for over Euro 200k.

As always, this is just my humble opinion and the market is always right.

Cheers
 
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