echappe
Well-Known Member
A pressure/flow switch can be incorporated that will sense that the car is not running and will turn the pump off
3.5l transplant from a 1989 E34
- Thread starter cs1971
- Start date
As a rule I don't argue with Carl because he is so damn good....
I will say that the original design for all the seventies and eighties cars were either a switch contact in the AFM for the fuel pump or a switched relay trigger from the ecu only present with either a crank sensor up front or a speed or reference sensor at the bell housing triggered by the 116 teeth on the flywheel or the metal marker on the auto or the inset marker on the manual. The spark plug wire pick up coils present on many car like the m30 b35 on #1 and the 745i #6 are for cylinder identification. Does this impact you if your car is simply using a key switched wire to the pump? Only if you don't want your pump to run when the engine is off and the key is on. The prime example of this is if you get in a nasty wreck. Your engine may stall but the pump can still keep spewing fuel. Normally the green/violet wire is connected at the engine harness to a wire that runs through the firewall and back to the trunk. I use a green wire because I am lazy and cheap. Green/violet is the correct color and is available in bulk from BMW and other sources.
Don
I will say that the original design for all the seventies and eighties cars were either a switch contact in the AFM for the fuel pump or a switched relay trigger from the ecu only present with either a crank sensor up front or a speed or reference sensor at the bell housing triggered by the 116 teeth on the flywheel or the metal marker on the auto or the inset marker on the manual. The spark plug wire pick up coils present on many car like the m30 b35 on #1 and the 745i #6 are for cylinder identification. Does this impact you if your car is simply using a key switched wire to the pump? Only if you don't want your pump to run when the engine is off and the key is on. The prime example of this is if you get in a nasty wreck. Your engine may stall but the pump can still keep spewing fuel. Normally the green/violet wire is connected at the engine harness to a wire that runs through the firewall and back to the trunk. I use a green wire because I am lazy and cheap. Green/violet is the correct color and is available in bulk from BMW and other sources.
Don
sfdon,
No I didn't connect all the green wires from the wiring harness. I only connected the 16GA. green wire for powering the ECU. So, the 22GA. green wire is power to the coil, Hmmm, will correct. I fused the V/GN to the pump.
I didn't connect the tach yet , nor the O2 sensor, just picked up the center pipe today from the Machine shop(install threaded nut for O2 sensor), no antifreeze neither, wanted to here it run b4 tidying things up. I studied that pin layout for a day, I just new I had it proper. This is my first rebuild and I am learning a whole bunch. I would like to thank you all in advance for the input and HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU ALL.
PS, sfdon I will PM you after XMAS when I get back to the garage.
No I didn't connect all the green wires from the wiring harness. I only connected the 16GA. green wire for powering the ECU. So, the 22GA. green wire is power to the coil, Hmmm, will correct. I fused the V/GN to the pump.
I didn't connect the tach yet , nor the O2 sensor, just picked up the center pipe today from the Machine shop(install threaded nut for O2 sensor), no antifreeze neither, wanted to here it run b4 tidying things up. I studied that pin layout for a day, I just new I had it proper. This is my first rebuild and I am learning a whole bunch. I would like to thank you all in advance for the input and HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU ALL.
PS, sfdon I will PM you after XMAS when I get back to the garage.
That is backwards on the green wires-there are just eight connections.....
Big green is coil [pin 15 on coil]
Little green is power to the ecu [pin 27]
Both are fused and connected to the coupe Switched Power [the green wires coming through the firewall]
Brown/White is temp gauge on the coupe
Take your pick of either wires at the new sensor plug and delete one. crimp on a new female spade connector to the remaining wire and connect that to coupe brown/white and use your old temp sensor.
Green/Brown is oil pressure
easy...same for both
Blue is Alternator
easy...same for both
small black at firewall is dedicated wire to pin#1 on coil, this is where your coupe tach will get its signal.
Don't touch any other black wires in the new harness..
Big black at firewall is starter and connects to big black/yellow on new plug.
Big green/violet is fuel pump- fuse it and run it to the back of the car- easier than you think.
Best pump solution is 318is from 1992.
Brown/Yellow is injectors 2,4,6 and Brown/White is the others. Keep in mind that intake valves are only open about 40 of the 720 degrees- timing of injectors is important.
The diagnostic plug has 5 jumpered pins- delete at your own risk...
When you filet the harness you can delete the oil level and purge wires and the same goes for the three wires going to the tranny plug[NOT the 3 wires for wot and idle]
Junkyards are swimming with e30's- That engine connector is great-comes with a mounting bracket too!
Big green is coil [pin 15 on coil]
Little green is power to the ecu [pin 27]
Both are fused and connected to the coupe Switched Power [the green wires coming through the firewall]
Brown/White is temp gauge on the coupe
Take your pick of either wires at the new sensor plug and delete one. crimp on a new female spade connector to the remaining wire and connect that to coupe brown/white and use your old temp sensor.
Green/Brown is oil pressure
easy...same for both
Blue is Alternator
easy...same for both
small black at firewall is dedicated wire to pin#1 on coil, this is where your coupe tach will get its signal.
Don't touch any other black wires in the new harness..
Big black at firewall is starter and connects to big black/yellow on new plug.
Big green/violet is fuel pump- fuse it and run it to the back of the car- easier than you think.
Best pump solution is 318is from 1992.
Brown/Yellow is injectors 2,4,6 and Brown/White is the others. Keep in mind that intake valves are only open about 40 of the 720 degrees- timing of injectors is important.
The diagnostic plug has 5 jumpered pins- delete at your own risk...
When you filet the harness you can delete the oil level and purge wires and the same goes for the three wires going to the tranny plug[NOT the 3 wires for wot and idle]
Junkyards are swimming with e30's- That engine connector is great-comes with a mounting bracket too!
sfdon,
I connected BR/W of the coupe to the BR/V wire coming from the harness and cut away the BR/Y for temp. So I can't do it this way using the E34 sensor? Now you said 8 wires total initially. I only counted 7 from the write-up. Is the last wire the O2 sensor? Need conformation on color and what it should get (+) or ( -) signal.
I am not using any of the diagnostic wires. However, I contemplating on rigging the Gray wire ( check engine indicator) up.
When you say, "Not the 3 wires for wot and idle", you just lost me.
Also, I have a CSI tank with E24 fuel pump under the left side rear sub-frame for fuel distribution. I am curious whether this sufficient ? Not an intake pump, external, " just wondering".
I connected BR/W of the coupe to the BR/V wire coming from the harness and cut away the BR/Y for temp. So I can't do it this way using the E34 sensor? Now you said 8 wires total initially. I only counted 7 from the write-up. Is the last wire the O2 sensor? Need conformation on color and what it should get (+) or ( -) signal.
I am not using any of the diagnostic wires. However, I contemplating on rigging the Gray wire ( check engine indicator) up.
When you say, "Not the 3 wires for wot and idle", you just lost me.
Also, I have a CSI tank with E24 fuel pump under the left side rear sub-frame for fuel distribution. I am curious whether this sufficient ? Not an intake pump, external, " just wondering".
x_atlas0
Well-Known Member
I have not had any problems with just an external OEM Motronic fuel pump.
1 big green
2 little green
3 brown/white
4 green/brown
5 blue
6 small black
7 big black
8 green/violet
Total of 6 wires come from the TPS of an automatic car- 3 are for idle and WOT and 3 are for load info for the auto tranny to determine the pressure regulation in the valve body. If you have a auto tranny wiring harness you can delete the 3 wires and the extra plug that goes to the auto tranny.
Coupes only have 1 wire going to the gauge- that extra wire in the e34 harness is for a warning light which coupes don't have.
I like in-tank pumps because they are so easy to check, easy to replace. I carry a spare in my daily driver so I can swap out if ever needed without jacks and stands.
Motronic 1.3 uses a 4 wire o2 sensor. 3 of those wires go to the ecu. 2 of them for the o2 signal ant the third is a ground that is monitored by the ecu to throw a fault code if the heater circuit goes bad.
I have zero idea why some cars came with intank and some with no intank pumps.
Most of the no intank cars that I see are Euro specific models
2 little green
3 brown/white
4 green/brown
5 blue
6 small black
7 big black
8 green/violet
Total of 6 wires come from the TPS of an automatic car- 3 are for idle and WOT and 3 are for load info for the auto tranny to determine the pressure regulation in the valve body. If you have a auto tranny wiring harness you can delete the 3 wires and the extra plug that goes to the auto tranny.
Coupes only have 1 wire going to the gauge- that extra wire in the e34 harness is for a warning light which coupes don't have.
I like in-tank pumps because they are so easy to check, easy to replace. I carry a spare in my daily driver so I can swap out if ever needed without jacks and stands.
Motronic 1.3 uses a 4 wire o2 sensor. 3 of those wires go to the ecu. 2 of them for the o2 signal ant the third is a ground that is monitored by the ecu to throw a fault code if the heater circuit goes bad.
I have zero idea why some cars came with intank and some with no intank pumps.
Most of the no intank cars that I see are Euro specific models
These color codes are from the coupe. The e34 wiring harness doesn't have a little green wire. I put a 9v battery on the big green wire of the E34 wires and I get a light at pin#27 and the coil wire.
I sprayed some gas into the throttle body and the engine Hic-cup as though it was going to start.:-|
I sprayed some gas into the throttle body and the engine Hic-cup as though it was going to start.:-|
So you have battery voltage at the coil and the ecu- which is the problem, spark or fuel?
I always admire people that admit there mistakes- Makes me feel better about all the dumb stuff I do...
Don
Edit- "Their" not there!!!
Don
Edit- "Their" not there!!!
sfdon,
I am not feeling well today. I added antifreeze and close everything up, then re-started the engine to notice a knocking coming from the bottom end. so I quickly shut her down.
The only thing I did to the bottom end was change the pump gear, chain and sump from my old pump to fit my oil pan. I used the donor pump. Donor engine was running fine B4 swap.
Question:
1. How can I confirm that the pump is not working?
2. Can you access the pump without removing the engine?
I am not feeling well today. I added antifreeze and close everything up, then re-started the engine to notice a knocking coming from the bottom end. so I quickly shut her down.
The only thing I did to the bottom end was change the pump gear, chain and sump from my old pump to fit my oil pan. I used the donor pump. Donor engine was running fine B4 swap.
Question:
1. How can I confirm that the pump is not working?
2. Can you access the pump without removing the engine?
On occasion- when you transfer oil pumps and sub out pickups from old to new and swap out pumps and pans... there is ONE bolt head on the oil pump that will hit the crank on cylinder #1....
That is why you should always hand spin ANY engine you work on after each phase of work..
If that is the problem you can dremel off a corner after you rotate the bolt head and verify you no longer have an interference fitment.
You need to check for oil pressure of course and do you remember if the oil pump needed shims? Did you shim both the twin bolts and the single bolt?
You will probably need to drop your oil pan- get yourself two blocks of wood about 2" x 2" x 2" and stick then between the subframe and the motor mount. That is the quickest way I know to pull an oil pan. You can also lossen the subframe a bit- be careful underneath!
Don
That is why you should always hand spin ANY engine you work on after each phase of work..
If that is the problem you can dremel off a corner after you rotate the bolt head and verify you no longer have an interference fitment.
You need to check for oil pressure of course and do you remember if the oil pump needed shims? Did you shim both the twin bolts and the single bolt?
You will probably need to drop your oil pan- get yourself two blocks of wood about 2" x 2" x 2" and stick then between the subframe and the motor mount. That is the quickest way I know to pull an oil pan. You can also lossen the subframe a bit- be careful underneath!
Don
I really don't recall placing any shems.
So what you are saying is , take the screws off from the bottom of the motor mounts; jack the engine up and place the 2 blocks between both motor mounts avoiding the bolts; then drop the oil pan.
Question:
1. Should I loosen the transmission mount as well, so both engine and trans raises simultaneous?
So what you are saying is , take the screws off from the bottom of the motor mounts; jack the engine up and place the 2 blocks between both motor mounts avoiding the bolts; then drop the oil pan.
Question:
1. Should I loosen the transmission mount as well, so both engine and trans raises simultaneous?
I always pull the fan, take off the tranny support and jack up the engine.
But- I don't do anything until I think about what I am going to do and why..
Feel free to pm me for a phone #....
Don
But- I don't do anything until I think about what I am going to do and why..
Feel free to pm me for a phone #....
Don
Some thoughts for you...
When starting an engine for the first time after a rebuild- always- pull the main relay so that no fuel and no spark occur while you are getting the oil pump primed.
Running an engine for a full minute with no oil pressure is just not good.
When starting an engine for the first time after a rebuild- always - hand manipulate the chain tensioner until the tensioner piston has bled the air out and the chain is tight.
Remember that a 3.0 and and a 3.5 engine have different strokes and that early pumps can and will come into contact with #1 crank weight on the bolt head of the pump and shatter the pump and do evil things to crank bearings.
Always hand rotate an engine before installing... like 10 times at least
Main bearing capbolts need 60 Nm torque AFTER cleaning and oiling.
Rod bolts are 55 Nm after cleaning and oiling.
The dampener nut to crank needs 440 Nm ... [300 pounds torque]
A loose dampener nut will give you a clattering/clanking noise as the dampener slaps around.
The spec for that lower timing gear is heated in oil to 350 degrees and drifted on- make sure both chains are lined up and gear is all the way on.
You should be using your coupe oil pan, your b35 pump and your coupe pick-up.
Keep in mind that BMW made different kinds of mounts for the pickups - you will need to retorque some bolts.
good luck!
Don
When starting an engine for the first time after a rebuild- always- pull the main relay so that no fuel and no spark occur while you are getting the oil pump primed.
Running an engine for a full minute with no oil pressure is just not good.
When starting an engine for the first time after a rebuild- always - hand manipulate the chain tensioner until the tensioner piston has bled the air out and the chain is tight.
Remember that a 3.0 and and a 3.5 engine have different strokes and that early pumps can and will come into contact with #1 crank weight on the bolt head of the pump and shatter the pump and do evil things to crank bearings.
Always hand rotate an engine before installing... like 10 times at least
Main bearing capbolts need 60 Nm torque AFTER cleaning and oiling.
Rod bolts are 55 Nm after cleaning and oiling.
The dampener nut to crank needs 440 Nm ... [300 pounds torque]
A loose dampener nut will give you a clattering/clanking noise as the dampener slaps around.
The spec for that lower timing gear is heated in oil to 350 degrees and drifted on- make sure both chains are lined up and gear is all the way on.
You should be using your coupe oil pan, your b35 pump and your coupe pick-up.
Keep in mind that BMW made different kinds of mounts for the pickups - you will need to retorque some bolts.
good luck!
Don
sfdon,
I just got around to looking into the bottom end. I just wanted to let you know that,"YOU ARE THE MAN". You hint the hammer on the nail. I went ahead and drop the whole sub frame instead. After dropping the oil pan, I was able to see where cylinder # 1 was hinting the oil pump hex bolt. I took my Drumel tool and shaved it down for clearance :mrgreen:.
Question:
1. I still don't see any shems, should I find some?
2. I didn't do any bottom end work initially and don't plan on disassembling anything, Should I re-torque everything as suggested anyway?
I just got around to looking into the bottom end. I just wanted to let you know that,"YOU ARE THE MAN". You hint the hammer on the nail. I went ahead and drop the whole sub frame instead. After dropping the oil pan, I was able to see where cylinder # 1 was hinting the oil pump hex bolt. I took my Drumel tool and shaved it down for clearance :mrgreen:.
Question:
1. I still don't see any shems, should I find some?
2. I didn't do any bottom end work initially and don't plan on disassembling anything, Should I re-torque everything as suggested anyway?
Clearances
I would suggest that a measurement be taken on the clearance. Three times at least while someone turns the crank. You're looking for .040in. but others might have a different clearance, as I'm relating typical for a stroker where block grinding comes into play with longer crank throws. This is a very common occurence on those applications and should be better documented here.
When you changed the oil pump cam and chain over - did you adjust the chain tension? Said another way, was there a long metal shim under the pump on the front two bolts? If so, there is a third needed under the other mount/ bolt.
Lastly, I'd suggest you measure the pickup to pan clearance for grins.
Don may well have other suggestions now that you have the pan off.
Best of luck....
I would suggest that a measurement be taken on the clearance. Three times at least while someone turns the crank. You're looking for .040in. but others might have a different clearance, as I'm relating typical for a stroker where block grinding comes into play with longer crank throws. This is a very common occurence on those applications and should be better documented here.
When you changed the oil pump cam and chain over - did you adjust the chain tension? Said another way, was there a long metal shim under the pump on the front two bolts? If so, there is a third needed under the other mount/ bolt.
Lastly, I'd suggest you measure the pickup to pan clearance for grins.
Don may well have other suggestions now that you have the pan off.
Best of luck....
Good advice from 61porsche- Follow his lead and you will be fine. Honestly, I am beat- day 6 on a Ferrari rewire, a leaky Porsche tranny and a tough early turbo bmw tune. Heading back to the mainland in the morning. You have my phone #- Call me after Monday. Congrats on finding the interference fitment!
Pay attention to 61porsche before you put it back together.
Sfdon
Pay attention to 61porsche before you put it back together.
Sfdon
tomcolitt
(deceased)
I have done this before temporarily 20 years ago (just didn't like the look of the cut manifold), but there was no performance issue. You're not changing things that much by cutting that notch out of the bottom portion of the IM.
If anyone needs the Tii brake booster, I have a good used one for sale....
If anyone needs the Tii brake booster, I have a good used one for sale....