'73 3.0CS frame off resto update

[dhanna]

Hi all,

Long time no post. Hope I get to post more often going forward.

here's a link to the google album I keep my photos in

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sxbKmo6w55NKrpES2

not sure if that's the best way to share photos.

I also purchased a 72 Bavaria for parts and I plan to start parting that out this year so stand by for some parts for sale here and there. I still haven't decided weather I'll turn that into another project like a restomod with a BMW V12 or something or just sell it to someone else for body parts.

I'm hoping to get the E9 into a body shop in the SD area to do all the metal work hence the new caddy I built. (see below)

I still have to build something to support the rear half of the car. I'm teaching myself to weld along the way so progress is slow.

Cheers

Dan

 

[dhanna]

finally have the car up on casters and ready for sand blasting
some questions

I've removed most of the sound deadener but do I need to remove the undercoat?
Should I join the two subframes I've built?
Should I brace the interior?
I've been very lucky rust wise there are a few small trouble spots don't think I'll need to remove any body panels.

Cheers

 

[eriknetherlands]

Whether or not to brace is depending on the work required.
If the sills need to come out; then yes, i'd brace the car internally; door openings are often used for this.
When I cut the last end of my left sill off, my car sagged by 3 mm. I had to weld in one of these twisting threaded things to pull it straight again. (see pic; left sill end going into rear wheel well. .. The hole for the Cleco on the right was drilled prior to spot weld separation) Without pulling the two sides twist thingy, the 2 holes used by the Cleco were 3 mm off..

I would join the 2 dollies / subframes. They help to keep the car straight and true, but also ensure that if any weld would fail of your dolly, the car doesn't drop on you. It would be less like a 'house of cards'.
If you happen to have a laser, see if you can figure out a flat plane to work from. IF you floor is wonky, the car will be wonky.

I removed the undercoat as I noticed that quite a few brown spots were coming through; discovered soo many that I've just taken all off. (but it is a pain and mess to do it). If you inspect and find all is nice, then there is no need to remove. If you find just a few spots, you can always locally clean, grind and protect.

Erik.

 

[dhanna]

Thanks for the reply Eric
-the undercoat is coming off in several places and my thinking is that it should get completely redone something a'la rhino liner or something even tougher if I can find it.
-as for joining the the two subframes I'm not sure of the floors flatness but I've been trying to keep everything level with a standard bubble level but I think you'll agree that those bubbles leave much to be desired (I may just join the two frames and create rotisserie attachment points while I'm in there.)
-I don't think I'll know if major body work is needed until it returns from sand blasting at which point i'll start bracing things. There is one small stress fracture in the trans tunnel (see below passenger side rectangular opening for speed nut) and some of the associated rippling these bodies typically get but I'm not sure how this translates to frame movement
-the driver-side front frame rail does seem to be about 5-10 mm higher than the passenger side but I'm unsure if that's due to the floor or the frame being out of whack
I was thinking of taking the shell over to Karl at La Jolla Independent to put on the body jig but IDK if it even needs it.
-I'm gonna try to hammer and dolly the shifter opening back into shape I don't see the ripples extending beyond the face of the shifter opening into the sides of the tunnel not sure what that indicates in terms of frame movement though.

 

[dhanna]

There seems to be rippling in the front floor boards I've been told that these cars tend to have this along side the the typical trans tunnel issues.
Can a competent frame straightener work these out? where could I get chassis dimensions?

I'm also experiencing trouble registering the car here in California
It was a European market car that was delivered originally in Italy then somehow made its way to Arizona before it ended up here and I bought it.
It has a valid Arizona title but the reg is missing. I can't find records of the car in the AZDOT (AZ Dept of Transportation)
The issue at hand now is that no VIN Verifier will look at the car because it's missing the Federal Safety Cert Sticker in the Door Jamb which is supposedly on every CA vehicle door jamb from 1970 onward.
This sticker has nothing to do with smog but is required to get a title without a CHP or DMV Ispection.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[HB Chris]

Find someone who knows a police officer, they can sign off on a VIN Verification form available on the DMV website. He will want to see the stamped VIN and the nearby VIN plate, also engine if you can see it. Having an AZ title should be good, you don’t need an annual AZ registration doc. CA is making it tough for grey market imports starting in 1968 to get registered for some reason. Good luck.

 

[dhanna]

After digging through some papers I found a drawing with some body dimensions and I also found one on here.
is the O-O Datum considered to be the bottom or top of the seam along the bottom of the rockers?
I'm planning to go to a body shop to do the body alignment. I will be putting to doors back on before hand to keep the whole thing rigid for transport to the body shop.
I haven't braced the body at all but I also haven't removed any of the body panels.
Should brace the body?
I'm also in the process of conceptualizing some "subframe" connectors but I don't know what thickness of sheet metal to purchase? Any pointers on what gauge?
Thanks again for all your help everyone!

 

[eriknetherlands]

O-O at the back is the bottom of the internal reinforcements that carry the rear axle. Its where the big bolts go through from under the rear seats.
At the front it is the bottom of the frame rails.
It has nothing to do with any line on the rockers.

 

[autokunst]

After digging through some papers I found a drawing with some body dimensions and I also found one on here.
is the O-O Datum considered to be the bottom or top of the seam along the bottom of the rockers?
I'm planning to go to a body shop to do the body alignment. I will be putting to doors back on before hand to keep the whole thing rigid for transport to the body shop.
I haven't braced the body at all but I also haven't removed any of the body panels.
Should brace the body?
I'm also in the process of conceptualizing some "subframe" connectors but I don't know what thickness of sheet metal to purchase? Any pointers on what gauge?
Thanks again for all your help everyone!

I love that drawing. I plan to live by it, and may enlarge it and pin it to the garage wall.

 

[dhanna]

O-O at the back is the bottom of the internal reinforcement that carries the rear axle. Its where the big bolts go through from under the rear seats.
At the front it is the bottom of the frame rails.
It has nothing to do with any line on the rockers.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A520F met Tapatalk

Thank you thank you thank you that makes so much more sense than what I was thinking!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aearch]

wonderful pics of the restoration
really look nice
going to be a great rebuild

 

[JamesE30]

That drawing is fantastic! Thank you for sharing!

Can somebody confirm that the dotted "Line O" is the hight as indicated in this image?

 

[autokunst]

That drawing is fantastic! Thank you for sharing!

Hi James,
For your reference, the chassis/frame dimension drawing is located in the blue repair manual binders. It is in chapter 41 which is in the volume 2 binder: 41-0/5. In the original binders, it is a fold out sheet that has nice, crisp linework. Of course, it also is in reproduction versions of the blue binders, but I've found it is then reduced to one page (not fold-out), and a little harder to read. Hope this helps.

 

[JamesE30]

Very helpful thank you. I will have to find a copy.

i was actually going to ask for clarification on the height of "line O" as per my edit above.

These dimensions are perfect for the frame dolly I''m thinking about building..

 

[autokunst]

That drawing is fantastic! Thank you for sharing!

Can somebody confirm that the dotted "Line O" is the hight as indicated in this image?

I believe your sketch diagram is correct as illustrated. I also like the diagonal braces shown in the pic. The dimension from the chassis corners to the final drive bolts should be the 763,5 +/- 1. Hopefully someone that has already done one of these can confirm this.

 

[eriknetherlands]

That drawing is fantastic! Thank you for sharing!

Can somebody confirm that the dotted "Line O" is the hight as indicated in this image?

yep, (if your dotted line ends at the center of the circle, not the edge ).
The center point is used for the dimensions 1236mm & 763,5mm.

 

[dhanna]

Okay update on using paint stripper to remove undercoating.
I'm trying this Jasco chemical really caustic seems to soften it up after 15 min makes it easy to scrape off see before and after.
Might need multiple treatments to fully remove. I'll try another test area with a slightly longer set time.
It neutralizes with soap and water but I need to collect the run off and dispose of properly could be more trouble than it's worth but the dustless blasting guy I'm using says his blast media takes too long to cut through it.
Had anyone had any luck with any other chemical strippers?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[autokunst]

Okay update on using paint stripper to remove undercoating.

Looks like it is doing a really good job from the pics!

 

[dhanna]

I also tried some of this aerosol type remover it did not work as well after a 20 min set time
See the before and after
It was much more difficult to scrape off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HB Chris]

Easy-Off oven cleaner works great, but if left on too long it will soften the primer underneath.