A few tips on installing e28 window motors

[Wladek]

If we talk about front windows speed here - couple weeks ago i was cleaning door rails (that black one's), grease was like glue (old grease from rear windows mechanism wasn't so bad), roller was moving hardly even pushing with whole hand.
Drill wire brush, nitro fuel with paint brush - took me about 2 hours on each rail to strip it bare metal, dirt was everywhere i was pretty pissed off. But now, after new zinc plating - roller move by itself (just gravity).
So i think, everyone who have window speed problems should check rails first, instead of changing motors.

 

[Stevehose]

Absolutely the rails need to be cleaned and greased. A real pita but essential. Then after cleaning if the window doesn't go up and down with ease by hand or sticks then you need to loosen the alignment bolts and adust so it moves freely with no binding. Then regrease. Windows will now be fast and smooth.

 

[jmackro]

Beginning in Feb or Mar of 73 the motors changed to the ones you have so they bolt right in.

I had never seen the regulators from the post-Mar '73 e9's. Looking at Storage Andy's photo, they are quite different from the earlier regulators. So as HB Chris wrote, e28 rear motors could be installed on that style of regulator with none of the modifications I discussed earlier. But as HB Chris also said, the torque, speed and other specifications are probably the same for the late e9 and e28 motors.

Agree that cleaning the old, hardened grease from the tracks and properly aligning the tracks is step #1 in attaining higher window speeds. But even with those things perfect, e28 motors still spin faster than early e9 motors.

 

[nosmonkey]

E28 motors definitely spin faster than the late version e9 motors, and they're 400g lighter as a bonus

 

[Storage Andy]

Beginning in Feb or Mar of 73 the motors changed to the ones you have so they bolt right in. In my mind the torque is the same as e28 as I have swapped mine and speed is similar, cleaning and greasing the tracks makes the greatest difference.

Chris. should I be able to move the mechanism by hand though?

 

[HB Chris]

I’m trying to remember! No, you can’t. I lower the window first then detach the regulator from the glass. You can then pull the glass up, I clip a very strong clamp to the rear edge of glass to keep it up, then unbolt motor with regulator as one unit.

 

[Storage Andy]

I’m trying to remember! No, you can’t. I lower the window first then detach the regulator from the glass. You can then pull the glass up, I clip a very strong clamp to the rear edge of glass to keep it up, then unbolt motor with regulator as one unit.

Thanks. Will mess with it in a day or so.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

Has anyone other than @jmackro used this method? It is certainly more challenging on the electrical side.
I'm in the middle of driving season where I am, but I am being reminded how bad my power window situation is. There is so much resistance on my passenger window that the button will actually smoke if I hold it too long (also the window needs hand pushing assistance).
I've got four E28 motors ready to go. I just need to make the decision of whether to go with jmackro's or kdleimon's method.

 

[jmackro]

I assume that step #4, adding the relays, is the part that you are characterizing as challenging. You can certainly install the e28 motors without relays, as kdleimon did, and see how it works. The switch to e28 motors alone should improve things.

As others have noted, whichever motors you use (original "sardine can" or e28), having the window tracks properly aligned and not full of old, hardened grease, is key to window operation. If your switches are carrying so much current that they smoke, then your mechanisms are probably binding. My procedure is to remove the old motor-regulator assembly and move the window up & down by hand. If it is difficult to raise and lower, then you have a problem that should be addressed before swapping motors.

If your switches have been stressed by carrying so much current that they smoke, then their contacts are probably oxidized/pitted. They are going to have more resistance than new switches, which will limit the voltage reaching your new motors. So if you don't want to add relays you may want to at least install new switches (are they available anywhere?). But again, you might give it a try with the existing electrical parts; you can always add new switches or relays later.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

If your switches have been stressed by carrying so much current that they smoke, then their contacts are probably oxidized/pitted. They are going to have more resistance than new switches, which will limit the voltage reaching your new motors. So if you don't want to add relays you may want to at least install new switches (are they available anywhere?). But again, you might give it a try with the existing electrical parts; you can always add new switches or relays later.

Yes, they are still available (http://www.rogerstii.com/bmw-2002-e9-window-sunroof-rocker-switch/). I immediately bought one the first time the switch smoked. I haven't put it in and will not until I do what you outlined and swap the motor.

You are correct on the hardened grease. My passenger side rear window what nearly inoperable and making screeching noises. I pulled it out last year and completely de-greased, and then re-greased it, along with cleaning and lubing the sardine can contact points. Now it works fine, but a bit slow.

Thanks for the response. Now I just need to do the work.

 

[HB Chris]

That switch is for the blade style connectors up until Feb/Mar of 1973 when they switched to the round pin style with a matching receptacle and added circuit breakers and new window motors.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

I've got a 1973csi (Manufactured in late 1972), so they'll work for me.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

If your switches are carrying so much current that they smoke, then your mechanisms are probably binding. My procedure is to remove the old motor-regulator assembly and move the window up & down by hand. If it is difficult to raise and lower, then you have a problem that should be addressed before swapping motors.

Pulled the pax side regulator today. Absolutely caked!

 

[jmackro]

Pulled the pax side regulator today. Absolutely caked!

What is that stuff? Was the inside of the door caked with the same thing? Could it be Bondo sanding debris that stuck to the lubricant on the regulator?

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

Don't think so. I think it's just 46 years of dust and grease. I don't think that grease had seen the light since its days in Bavaria.

 

[m5bb]

View attachment 50110 View attachment 50110 Figured that I would throw in my cars application since I just ordered and received some E28 motors and am working on installing them. So my car is a 74 3.0 CS. I have put a few pics here to help. My old motors were the black ones in the pics. I had to remove them while still in the door to get the window mechanism out of the door. No big deal. I had looked at all the great info Jay put out there and was prepared to do some cutting. So far I think that I got a break with the 74 since the E28 motors will bolt right into the mechanism. Not sure if the mechanism and motors were original or had been swapped out over this cars life.

Where I may have a problem and was looking for a little insight is on the mechanism. At first I put it in a vise to see if I can move it. Not a chance so I have it soaking in PBB. Should I be able to move it by hand? Also without the mechanism on the door it is still somewhat hard to move the window. Any tips on grease to use for lube?

You should be able to move this gear and arm by hand as long as the motor gear and big gear are not engaged. Some times you have to push the arm near the gear in the direction it should go to get it past a middle balance point.
The windows are heavy and not easy to move in the door. With that said you need to check the roller mechanism closest to the latch end of the door, that holds the glass and make sure it's not all gummed up with hardened grease.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

So I finished up the passenger side motor swap last weekend (I did it first as it was nearly seized). I followed Jay Mackro's instructions and I did end up cutting out the sheet metal on the regulator (as opposed to using spacers).

Once I had the door panel back on and fastened in, I noticed that there is a slight bulge from the new motor. The new motor aligns with the manual crank cap, and it protrudes out slightly.

Did anyone else have this issue? I am now thinking that on the next one (drivers), I should use a combination of spacers and cutting out the sheet metal.

 

[m5bb]

So I finished up the passenger side motor swap last weekend (I did it first as it was nearly seized). I followed Jay Mackro's instructions and I did end up cutting out the sheet metal on the regulator (as opposed to using spacers).

Once I had the door panel back on and fastened in, I noticed that there is a slight bulge from the new motor. The new motor aligns with the manual crank cap, and it protrudes out slightly.

Did anyone else have this issue? I am now thinking that on the next one (drivers), I should use a combination of spacers and cutting out the sheet metal.

I've done the motors and also did the cutaway in the door panel but have not yet installed my panels.
I did notice that it was going to be close on the amount the motor was going to be proud of the face of the panel.
I may have to try a panel to see.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Gary

 

[jmackro]

I did end up cutting out the sheet metal on the regulator (as opposed to using spacers).....Once I had the door panel back on and fastened in, I noticed that there is a slight bulge from the new motor.

Sorry, but what you wrote isn't clear. "cutting out the sheet metal on the regulator" I think refers to the modification shown here:

There is no alternative to notching the regulator this way if you want to fit e28 motors, so I'm puzzled by your comment "as opposed to using spacers".

The spacers that kdelimon describes on his website at https://sites.google.com/site/kdelimon/windowmotorconversion2 are between the regulator and the door inner sheetmetal. He used those spacers to position the regulators further outward in the door, which avoids having to cut the door sheetmetal but misaligns the regulators relative to the windows. Instead of using those spacers, I notched my door sheetmetal (photo below) so my regulators could remain in the positions the smart guys in Munich intended. On my two doors, the back sides of the motor-gearboxes do not press against the upholstered door panel to any noticeable degree. Maybe my door panels are warped.

Please clarify what sheet metal you cut: the regulator, the inner door sheetmetal or both. Also, how much the motor-gearbox face extends inward beyond the door sheetmetal. My guess for a solution would be a stack of flatwashers installed on the 4 bolts that secure the regulator to the door. The thickness of these stacks would equal the distance the motor-gearbox protrudes inward from the door sheetmetal. In other words, shorter versions of the 1/2" to 5/8" spacers that kdelimon uses.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

I misspoke. I cut the door metal just as you did.

I am going to start on the driver side tomorrow. I'll probably pull the passenger panel at the same time to compare the two jobs.

Otherwise, I am happy with the E28 motor performance.