Alpina B2 for sale

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bela22

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Would any of you buy this car unseen?

Can the "pros" give me advice what exactly to make sure of before giving an offer/bid?

Which special ALPINA parts are extremely difficult to get if needed?
What is the most common problem with these high performance engine/suspention ?

thx in advance
 
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bela22

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Would any of you buy this car unseen?

Can the "pros" give me advice what exactly to make sure of before giving an offer/bid?

Which special ALPINA parts are extremely difficult to get if needed?
What is the most common problem with these high performance engine/suspention ?

thx in advance
 
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DJSimca

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Be VERY careful with this car!!

I have been speaking to the owner and have received additional photos and the 'Alpina documentation' which consists of a TÜV 'Prüfbericht' (=test report in German .. which I read perfectly) and the Swedish registration papers.

The 'Prüfbericht' (test report) is a general 'type approval document' for the B2 engine as fitted to 3 different types of BMWs (525, 3.0, 3.0 CS) . It is written by the TÜV in Bavaria at the request of Alpina Burkhard Bovensiepen. The test document does not refer to any particular car but is a general document outlining the results of fitting such engine.

There is nothing in the papers that conclusively proves that this is an original Alpina. Yes, the engine looks like an Alpina engine and the car has got an Alpina steering wheel and seats that I believe Alpina used at some point. However the car is also missing the 3 additional instruments which were fitted on some Alpinas (don't know if they were fitted on all!).

The Swedish registration papers do not state a first date of registration, only first date of registration in Sweden (26 October 1982) and there is no reference to any Alpina data.

I am not saying the car is not an Alpina, it could be, but again, the paperwork that I have seen does not prove this conclusively :shock:

I have asked the seller to provide conclusive evidence of this car's originality or to give potential buyers fair warning that this may not be an Alpina B2.

I'll let you know if I find out more.
 
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radosc

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I would be careful as well. Steering wheel is newer type, no alpina alloys, in Swedish documents it has 132kW and by the vin number it is 75' CSi...
 
shanon

shanon

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I made an inquery regarding this car, the seller has been very helpful (no personal affiliation). Thought I'd share some of the info the seller was kind enough to share about this Coupe:

"I could just determine that the engine number is 1008. I had the help of a mechanic who specializes in BMW CS, CSI and Alpina renovations for collectors. He said this confirmed that the engine block was a "real" Alpina engine block. It is also interesting that this establishes a link between the engine block and the TÜV paperwork which is labelled with "betrifft: ALPINA-Motor B 2 - Prod.Nr. 1008", as you can see from the paperwork I think I sent you previously."

I hope this info helps 'the mystery' and interested parties. I hope the new owner turns up on this board and shares this intersting find.

Good Luck!!

-shanon
(just another Alpina nut........ :wink: 8) )
 
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DJSimca

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Yeah, he also sent me the same sentence..

Question is what constitutes an original Alpina B2?

To me .. and correct me if I am wrong here, I am not an Alpina expert ... it is not only a question of having an original Alpina engine fitted to an E9 CSi!

The conversion must have been performed by Alpina or an authorized Alpina workshop + there must be a 'paper of authenticity', i.e. a piece of paper from Alpina stating that they have converted a BMW 3.0 CSi with x xxx xxx VIN number to be an Alpina B2. The seller does not have this documentation :shock: and from previous communication with Alpina about another B2 I know that they do not keep any files of the cars they converted in the 70s.

Interesting car indeed .. especially if it is a real B2!
Problem is that the seller cannot provide evidence of this.
All in all a risky proposition IMHO
 
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radosc

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shanon said:
"(..)It is also interesting that this establishes a link between the engine block and the TÜV paperwork which is labelled with "betrifft: ALPINA-Motor B 2 - Prod.Nr. 1008", as you can see from the paperwork I think I sent you previously."
Click to expand...

If so than engine was produced a year before this car was. I would suspect that this engine was from a donor vehicle as well as few other bits and pieces. But from what I know there were no alpina badges and numbers at that time, so if it has B2 engine and some other pieces then this makes it a real Alpina B2 :)
 
chicane

chicane

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so if it has B2 engine and some other pieces then this makes it a real Alpina B2 :)
Click to expand...

Umm, not quite. It makes it a real Alpina engine. What you are paying for in a case like this is documentation, not a car. I can spend some money and make a CSi into a turnkey E9 CSL racecar, equipped with all of the goodies as the originals. But if I do not have all of the FIA documentation and log books stating that is is an authentic 1970's racecar it is worth considerably less than the cars with the race histories.
 
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PV-ALPINA

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radosc:

The car is manufactured in 1975. Engine number is 1008, the info I have says that this engine must be manufactured in 1973 :?:
 
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PV-ALPINA

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According to Herr Wolf at Alpina, an engine with engine number 1008 was produced 1973 for a 1973 3.0csi. This engine was not equipped with triple Solex but with fuel injeciton. The number of the cylinder head (between cyl 1 and 2 on the intake side) to this engine 1008 was 2705. As we all know by know engine 1008 has today a cylinder head from 1982.

So, we have by know reliable information about that this car from 1975 on Ebay is NOT an original B2. However, one or more parts from the car produced in 1973 may vary well be fitted to this car, but that doesn't make it a b2.

I guess that this ends the discussion of this car so far.

/Johan Nordkvist
 
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DJSimca

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Hi PV-Alpina,

Sounds as if you are also in contact with this seller .. and it also sounds like you have a good connection with Alpina :p

Have you informed the seller that he is not selling the genuine article?
 
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PV-ALPINA

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I was dubious from the very beginning that this car would have been a genuine B2. Since the production of B2 started in 1973 and we know that in total 192 of those cars were produced, what is the likelihood that a car manufactured in 1975 should have been fitted with an engine with a number 8 from the beginning? If that would have been the case, seven B2:s should have been produced in 1973 AND in 1974 and the rest, 185, should have been made from the last 500 CSI ever produced. That gives us a likelihood as close to zero as you can get.

To confirm my therory a contact with Alpina was inevitable. They confirmed what I thought and know we all know.

Best regards,

/Johan
 
shanon

shanon

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So in conclusion...'consensus' here says that this is not a true B2, but a later E9 coupe that has an interesting collection of Alpina parts 'possibly' installed/fitted by Alpina (or Alpina dealer based on documentation) at some later date...

So... could one deduce that the Alpina B1/B2s are the 'rarest' of all the E9s? Anyone know if there are any 'true' B1/B2s in the States?

I'll probably see Bigfoot/Sasqwatch before I ever see one of these mythical beasts..... :lol:

-shanon
 
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PV-ALPINA

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The possibility that Alpina has done anything else than manufactured some alpina parts fitted to this car is ZERO. Most likely the Alpina stuff has been attached to the car in Sweden AFTER 1982, I have my suspicion that the third owner did that...

Genuine B2 are of course "rare as hen's teeth", no question about that.

/Johan
 
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