Sonny Crockett
Member
The horror...
BaT - E39 M5-Based, Custom-Bodied E9 CS by MKO
- Thread starter Nachtycoupe
- Start date
guys since this is the 3rd thread (2 of which were posted in e9 discussion), i have merged all of them together and moved the original post to e9 discussion. great comments, just wanted to keep them together.
I admire the testicular determination to undertake this build. It's a staggering amount of design and fabrication. Given how different the two unibodies are, this is the most successful blending of the two that was possible. Somebody was really determined ($$$$$) joined with somebody that was very talented. For that I applaud them. This was my comment on the BaT auction on the specifics of how they carried it off:
@itsonlyCamrymoney "Image 234 is the most revealing – of the staggering amount of fabrication required to graft the narrow E9 body on to the wider E39 pan.
Also Image 239 shows how this magic was accomplished. Note the widened splice in the center of the E9 rear bumper. Everything above this ‘line’ is the original narrow E9 body, everything below is the wider E39 pan. This allowed them to retain the original E9 windscreen and backlight. Extremely difficult to visually carry off. Very elegant execution."
This car will sell for 43% of the cost of the original build.
@itsonlyCamrymoney "Image 234 is the most revealing – of the staggering amount of fabrication required to graft the narrow E9 body on to the wider E39 pan.
Also Image 239 shows how this magic was accomplished. Note the widened splice in the center of the E9 rear bumper. Everything above this ‘line’ is the original narrow E9 body, everything below is the wider E39 pan. This allowed them to retain the original E9 windscreen and backlight. Extremely difficult to visually carry off. Very elegant execution."
This car will sell for 43% of the cost of the original build.
I was asleep at the wheel. Thanks for the move Scott!
Actually, they are pretty much exactly the same...
Here is a side by side comparison. I adjusted the images so the cars are the same size. The yellow rectangles are also the same size.
I think the visual effect your describe is actually a result of the more pronounced door gap on the Polaris car, vs the almost invisible door gap on the Malaga car. The Malaga car actually looks like it is raked more aggressively (see lower horizontal yellow line. The one onthe Malaga car is the same as the one onthe Polaris car, but the Malaga car is higher at the rear.
I think the overly large wheels also disrupt the look. I like 16's on the couple, but 19's just start to look a bit clownish (not to mention the 19's are just not the right style for the car...).
I am never much of a fan of trying to make a coupe that isn't a CSL look like a CSL (sort of like the folks that add BMW roundels to Pontiacs to try to feel more cool...), and there is something jarring about a modern car interior in a classic car.
rblongboarder
Well-Known Member
I was trading ideas with one of the e9coupe members.. now that @ScottAndrews has posted a cool photo comparison, I'll post my observations...
A. On the E9/E39.. the black CSL stripe above the chromed body line is distracting to me.. almost visual overload. The E9's body has a beautiful complex curve in that area which provides a natural highlight to the paint. The CSL stripe hides this.. while the highlights are very visible in the Malaga (part of this is the lighting and professional photography)
B. I also note that the rocker panels are different colors, which can also distract the eye. Malaga has black rockers, while E9/E39 is polaris. To me, the chrome strip on the rocker defines the lower edge of the car, and the transition to black allows the underbody shapes to blend.
C. There is a significant difference in the lower front valence on the two cars as well.. their high above the road, and where their vertical edge lies relative to other details on the vehicle's nose.
D. On the E9/E39.. the rear section is painted black below the rear bumper... probably the last 2 to 3 inches... to my eye, the body line from the rockers does not transfer seamlessly across the rear tire and continue...
A. On the E9/E39.. the black CSL stripe above the chromed body line is distracting to me.. almost visual overload. The E9's body has a beautiful complex curve in that area which provides a natural highlight to the paint. The CSL stripe hides this.. while the highlights are very visible in the Malaga (part of this is the lighting and professional photography)
B. I also note that the rocker panels are different colors, which can also distract the eye. Malaga has black rockers, while E9/E39 is polaris. To me, the chrome strip on the rocker defines the lower edge of the car, and the transition to black allows the underbody shapes to blend.
C. There is a significant difference in the lower front valence on the two cars as well.. their high above the road, and where their vertical edge lies relative to other details on the vehicle's nose.
D. On the E9/E39.. the rear section is painted black below the rear bumper... probably the last 2 to 3 inches... to my eye, the body line from the rockers does not transfer seamlessly across the rear tire and continue...
All interesting observations.
I think the black area in the back of the E9/E39 is actually the E39 tub...
The rear quarter panels are shorter, see how close bumper ends come to the wheel well. And the tail panel below the bumper is huge and impacts the proportions.
Yeah, I remember asking them about this, and they said that the wheel base from the donor chassis is slightly longer relative to the body panels. Hence the closer rear bumper to the fender edge. To reiterate, they told me it was $250K and two years to replicate if I wanted to buy one. I took a pass
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Suggestions:
Get rid of those wheels, they are very distracting and go with Alpina open or closed caps.
Paint rocker trim in rock guard black like our Coupes are.
Paint rear section under bumper rock guard body color.
These 3 changes would improve its looks and be more parallel to what a real E9 Coupe looks like.
I can't unsee those wheels. Hope I don't have nightmares about them tonight!
Regards, Jon
Get rid of those wheels, they are very distracting and go with Alpina open or closed caps.
Paint rocker trim in rock guard black like our Coupes are.
Paint rear section under bumper rock guard body color.
These 3 changes would improve its looks and be more parallel to what a real E9 Coupe looks like.
I can't unsee those wheels. Hope I don't have nightmares about them tonight!
Regards, Jon
Something else I just noticed. The rear bumper is angled up onthe E9/E39 car. On the Malaga car it is parallel to the belt line.
Here's a comparison. The curved line of there belt line on the Malaga car translates directly down to the bumpers (that long yellow horizontal between the bumpers is the same line as along the belt line in each photo. You can see how the line of the bumpers onthe E9/.E39 car ar angled up, so they disrupt the visual flow. It's a subtle difference, but your eye sees it. One is in harmony and the other is off key...
Here's a comparison. The curved line of there belt line on the Malaga car translates directly down to the bumpers (that long yellow horizontal between the bumpers is the same line as along the belt line in each photo. You can see how the line of the bumpers onthe E9/.E39 car ar angled up, so they disrupt the visual flow. It's a subtle difference, but your eye sees it. One is in harmony and the other is off key...
restart
Well-Known Member
+1 wheels are the first thing I’d change.
I’d like to drive it!
Then the dash.
It’s a prototype eh?
I’d like to drive it!
Then the dash.
It’s a prototype eh?
I'd quibble that the correct adjective is "fortitude"...Testicles have no determination, they do the job guided by the "little head"...But they often do need fortitude...How come nobody applauded @paul cain on his vocabulary..."testicular determination"...
But that's really just a quibble. I thought it was rather magnanimous of Paul to avoid directly slamming it..
You guys just made my day…..
Scott -
I think your green lines really show it well. The front and rear bumper configuration are almost making an arc rising up towards the middle and then falling towards the rear, in contrast to the straight line of the bottom of the rocker panel and underside of the car. This contributes to a sense of something being "off" even if on casual glance it would be hard to know why that is. The Malaga has a much more balanced look. While it's true that the hood, bottom of window and trunk themselves form a slight arch, it seems much more balanced. Subtle things but I guess it's what separates the OK from the very nice.
It's interesting that when one considers conventional "beauty", it's well-described that absolute perfection is a little off-putting to people. They want something that is just a very slight variation, but it's a fine balance between that and the stereotypical over-plastic-surgerized person in whom each individual part may be "perfect" but the whole is just a crazy mess. That's the vibe that the E39 version is giving me.
I just saw that person on a plane from Austin to San Diego (enroute to Santa Rosa). Duck lips weird cheeks that were pinched and sunken at the same time...Well one the way to looking like that cat lady! Spent the entire flight reading the Hollywood Star too...just to perfect the melange...
Yes, I think it is really interesting how even subtle disturbances on the visual flow jump out. Like a bad note in music..
The more I study this thing, the more I respect it. I just wonder how rigid the 'new' combined unibody really is? They had to decapitate that E39 unibody and that is quite a compromise. That's not something you can pick up with a remote PPI. Once it rolls off the transporter in your driveway -you own it. Is it a flex-i-flyer or rigid like an E39? That to me is the big unanswered question.
Tell me you wouldn't want to drive this thing?
Wheels are an easy fix as the seller has shown.
Tell me you wouldn't want to drive this thing?
Wheels are an easy fix as the seller has shown.
Attachments
Yeah, great question..
The result is potentially sort of a hybrid, body on frame, where the frame is the remnant of the M5 unibody.
If you sort of walk through the process, the inner fenders and underbody must be M5, So the front of the M5 (forward of the radiator) has been replaced by the front of the E9. And then you can hang the E9 fenders on the inner fenders of the M5. Seems simple enough (if not daunting to get it to look right!!).
But after that, all hell breaks loose. You have to salvage the doors and door frames from the E9, so that means the E9 A-pillar has been grafted on in place of the M5 A-pillar (meaning part of the M5 firewall has been cut out and re-formed to mate up to the E9 A-pillar and outer cowl (probably just took the roof of the E9 with it). A similar mess lies at the rear opening of the door, which needs to be from the E9 as well, but since the M5 is a 4-door car, they must have basically chopped the B-pillar off the M5, presumably shortened the wheel base of the remaining tub, and grafted the E9 quarter panels onto the rear wheel wells and trunk bulkhead of the M5.
So visualizing the M5 before installing he E9 body, you would remove the nose and the fenders. Cut the firewall to remove the A-Pillars and the cowl just below the windshield, taking the roof with it, and then cut the trunk bulkhead below the rear window, taking the rear quarters and trunk along the the rest of the roof.
So you have a tub with front inner fenders, a portion of the firewall, no B-pillars, rear wheel arches and a scrap of the trunk bulkhead, and the bottom of the trunk.
Kinda like this (crappy 2 minute sketch, sorry!)...
Then you basically do the same to the E9, but mirrored (nothing from inward of the A-pillars below the windshield cowl, and nothing inboard of the rear wheel wells below the rear package tray..
And then you somehow marry these two things together!
I suppose if the fabrication was done well, it is not super flexi, but it certainly can't be as stiff as the M5 was... I'd be especially concerned wit how the back end would behave...
Honolulu
Well-Known Member
I kinda like it, with reservations as to body rigidity. I wonder what financial event occurred such that the owner now wants to sell it - realizing he'll not come close to recouping (pun intended) his "investment".