back in the day it was around 200 bucks (2012 ish). today that same piece is probably 300 to 350 for the same piece.
coupe arm rest <renamed thread>
- Thread starter rsporsche
- Start date
$200 seems like a great price, I suspect many of us wouldn't be too unhappy to get something this solid for about $350 today.
Jon, I believe you but the Orange Book part numbers don’t show any discernible difference between no sunroof and sunroof. The numbers for the horsehair seat pad shows 811 753 as 2800CS up thru 3.0CS USA 2240134 and 2250066, 819 107 remainder of 3.0CS, and 833 321 as the MY 74 which has a longer lower seat cushion so only three options.
The frame number you list as 825445 and 446 shows as the back of the seat L and R but if it means the entire frame then: 812 560 is early 2800CS, 811 707 is 3.0CS USA from 224 0134 and 2250066 as above, 812 095/6 L and R shows remaining 3.0CS and 825 445/6 as USA MY 1974.
Another mystery from BMW!
if we could create an even better looking one - vinyl wrapped and slightly better functioning, it would have to be 400 to 500 to make it feasible. bottom line is everything is more expensive these days due to tariffs + shipping ... not to mention what anybody thinks is reasonable profit for the risk. for me its liable to be a one-off for starters and see what i can incorporate ... especially for the sliding / hinge mechanism. would love to find a nice lid that could just be recovered ... especially without sewing. that of course might not be realistic.
i honestly don't know how you would track them in the orange books since the sunroof model is not really differentiated in those books (by VIN)
say hi to Eric for me
It would be seat structure or the horsehair pad.
i would bet on the pad ... nobody wanted to make alternative seat structure for fun if they could solve it with a thinner pad.
Scott -- one thing I thought about, and your prior post seems to start down this path, is whether I could find an existing armrest/cover that could be used.
At a certain point the question becomes whether it's easier/cheaper to have a frame built into which a more readily available hinged part can be implemented, like the one you posted earlier, or something like this..probably would need to look around to confirm the right width, length, etc but may be worth considering. Also then comes the question of coloring - I believe that Anton's had the armrest in the interior leather color which makes it look more customized and perfect but obviously comes at increased complexity - is my red the same as your red vs someone else who needs black or tan.
yes, i was looking (am looking) for a stock piece as a starting point. it has to fit between the seats and not be too long (or wide). that is the rough part. i find a mini cooper (2008ish) piece that is 4" x 10" a little small. i find a bunch of Audi pieces that are too wide, but i'm going to see a friend's a3 tomorrow and will check size. my TTS has one that is 6" x 12" and has a sliding + hinge section. it would probably fit between the seats ... but there just aren't a lot of them available. started looking at VW for gti + jetta - smaller cars with huge productions. more on that soon.
And at that point the customization answer may be "here's the frame that the E9 group has built at $X cost, here's a link to a readily available drop-in hinged portion along with simple instructions of how to assemble them together, take the stock part to an upholsterer if you want custom leather/vinyl". Probably the best method to avoid having to deal with custom.
Also would be ideal to find a part from a car built in the last 10-15 years so that we can ensure availability (maybe) for the near future. Sourcing parts from a 1990s car is possible but can start to get spotty as the years go on.
Also would be ideal to find a part from a car built in the last 10-15 years so that we can ensure availability (maybe) for the near future. Sourcing parts from a 1990s car is possible but can start to get spotty as the years go on.
that piece looks pretty wide. ideally narrower than 150mm and shorter than 350mm. right now i am a believer in the henry ford approach - you can have any color you want as long as its black. or you can change it yourself or paint / dye it depending on material. the love of the idea of a manufactured sliding piece is that you aren't inventing / manufacturing something difficult. if you had to recover a top, okay, not the end of the world - even without getting into color, texture is often a problem.
absolutely. i am looking at cars between 2000 and 2020 ... and the preference is 2015 to 2023 for exactly the reasons you mention ... and with cars that were produced in huge numbers. think VW, Toyota, etc. i looked at BMW but they all had funny shapes.
So I plugged this into ChatGPT just to see what it could spit out, here’s the response. Leaving aside the snake eating its own tail nature of its reply, may be some useful info here. Note that the last question I'd asked it about was about my 1600 which is why it started there until I redirected. Link to the discussion below because when I tried to copy/paste the actual options it presented don't copy over (and long story short, in addition to providing some options, it linked back to this thread to provide some of its support for its choices)
i will take a closer look at this. i scanned it a few minutes ago and it seems interesting. but you gotta love that it pulled up this conversation in its references.
so i got some dimensions + photos from @Drew Gregg <thanks!> this gives me a couple of ideas / 2 different direction options.
being 4 to 5 inches from the rear seat to the back of the arm rest cap makes me want to create something that connects the rear armrest to the front one and be part of the front console. that's going to take some work to figure out and make look good. maybe its building the platform up - from the seat base to the front console and extend the carpet up and be level from the back seat to the front console. perhaps a leather wrapped filler panel or a horizontal box that fills between the rear arm rest and the front console ... the arm rest would rise above the horizontal box and the handbrake would be recessed down into the open box. i want the armrest to slide forward and to open backwards ... so it needs a very stable hinge.
the other alternative is to make it a little shorter. the angled back of the armrest base slopes 3" backward. if that is squared up or made with a reverse slope it could be shorter. i am looking at seeing if i could make an Audi A3 / S3 arm rest work. the top slides forward but is about 6" x 12" - it has a metal support base that the 'box' could be built around ... and could be shorter than the Anton base. i'm not sure that the audi base will fit between the seat hinges - especially when the hinges tilt forward. the cap is between 5" + 6" wide, i will need to go measure one ... and see how high it is above the tunnel. you can buy them for 60 to 70 bucks ... but there are tons of them on ebay. the idea of not having to manufacture something is very appealing. i will also be looking at VW, Toyota + Honda to see what i can find from there models
here is an image of the audi a3 / s3 arm rest + base - the leather doesn't look like a good match ... but it looks like a good start
being 4 to 5 inches from the rear seat to the back of the arm rest cap makes me want to create something that connects the rear armrest to the front one and be part of the front console. that's going to take some work to figure out and make look good. maybe its building the platform up - from the seat base to the front console and extend the carpet up and be level from the back seat to the front console. perhaps a leather wrapped filler panel or a horizontal box that fills between the rear arm rest and the front console ... the arm rest would rise above the horizontal box and the handbrake would be recessed down into the open box. i want the armrest to slide forward and to open backwards ... so it needs a very stable hinge.
the other alternative is to make it a little shorter. the angled back of the armrest base slopes 3" backward. if that is squared up or made with a reverse slope it could be shorter. i am looking at seeing if i could make an Audi A3 / S3 arm rest work. the top slides forward but is about 6" x 12" - it has a metal support base that the 'box' could be built around ... and could be shorter than the Anton base. i'm not sure that the audi base will fit between the seat hinges - especially when the hinges tilt forward. the cap is between 5" + 6" wide, i will need to go measure one ... and see how high it is above the tunnel. you can buy them for 60 to 70 bucks ... but there are tons of them on ebay. the idea of not having to manufacture something is very appealing. i will also be looking at VW, Toyota + Honda to see what i can find from there models
here is an image of the audi a3 / s3 arm rest + base - the leather doesn't look like a good match ... but it looks like a good start
Late to this party, but my 2 cents is that the sliding feature is overrated. My Audi armrest slides, and honestly it is more of a distraction than a feature.
Rear hinge is fine, you just need to be sure the material can take the torquing forces. As for finish. Just make the top removable so it can be finished custom and then attached.
Seems like a reasonably simple thing to design. the core issue is how to produce it... It is large, but could probably be printed in ABS, and then covered in foam and leather or vinyl. You could make different inserts, from a simple tub, to a tub with a tray (lie a small toolbox), or even a tub with a cup holder in the front section.
Seems reasonable to make it in three parts: Box, interior tub and lid, and maybe make the lid two parts with a core hinged section, and an attached upholstered pad.
Rear hinge is fine, you just need to be sure the material can take the torquing forces. As for finish. Just make the top removable so it can be finished custom and then attached.
Seems like a reasonably simple thing to design. the core issue is how to produce it... It is large, but could probably be printed in ABS, and then covered in foam and leather or vinyl. You could make different inserts, from a simple tub, to a tub with a tray (lie a small toolbox), or even a tub with a cup holder in the front section.
Seems reasonable to make it in three parts: Box, interior tub and lid, and maybe make the lid two parts with a core hinged section, and an attached upholstered pad.
Last edited:
I went and spent an hour with Eric yesterday to take a look at what he had manufactured. Lots of good information that I'll pass along here along with some photos.
First off, have to say that I had only seen this console in pictures before, which are inevitably somewhat dark and hard to see, and I am very impressed with the console he created. He designed the whole thing and built it out of parts that he obtained from local shops and for the most part it looks very professional and for $250 was a steal, I'd argue. He told me that he made about 40 of them and then just stopped because it was taking too long and taking away from restoring the various cars he had - currently including an E9, an Austin, Triumph TR6, a beautiful Malaga 2002, an E34 and some BMW motorcycles as well as a nice late 1960s Volvo. He and I geeked out about the shared German-British car dual-ownership. He also is one step ahead of me in having collected some nice 1:18 size models of his cars - I have also decided to join that club and have slowly been finding these for as cheaply (i.e. not!) as possible
OK, on to the console. For those who haven't seen it, going to summarize here in words as well as pictures for any engineers (@ScottAndrews) in the bunch.
1. He made these out of HDPE 0.5" plastic. This was a great choice. It has a textured outer surface, is very strong, easy to cut with table saw or router and unlike melamine it's the same the whole way through, so after cutting you can just round off an edge and it looks finished. Wood/plywood is obviously an option but then requires vinyl or leather covering which adds complexity and expense. For the sides and front/back he made a sliding dovetail cut in the panel and the corresponding edge to the pieces that slide in. In this way he could lay down a line of glue, slide the parts together and the combination of the glue and inherent strength made the box secure. These sheets are generally available - quick example here showing a price of about $500 for a 4.5' x 8' board which clearly could make a fair number of boxes. He started with a plywood "form" as a template - somehow I took a picture of the 2002 one instead of the E9 one but you can get the idea.
2. The sliding cupholder is likewise just a piece of thinner plastic that slides along two routed channels on the inside of the larger side panel with a stop at the end to prevent it being pulled all of the way out. This part has a little "stickiness" as you pull it out but feels fine.
3. There is a metal bracket that sits on the bottom edge of the console sides bridging them together just like the way our front console sides are attached at the level of the floor. This metal bracket would allow someone to secure the console to the floor. The bracket is covered over with a piece of carpet as you can see in the pictures linked above.
4. The top. This one is the more challenging part. I've attached a few photos of the top. As you can see, it's underside is piece of the plastic 12" long and 4.5" wide. The hinge and metal flat bar are items that Eric said he got at Lowe's and then cut down to fit. The other side of the hinge is slotted into a groove on one of the console sides, which you can see in the photo showing the width of the console. This part is perhaps a weak point - he said that one member had told him that that thinner outer edge of plastic had broken off in his console. There are no screws securing that side of the hinge, it just sits down in there. Obviously having the hinge along the long edge works from a strength standpoint, as mentioned above (perhaps) less ideal from access standpoint although my thoughts before and after seeing it changed somewhat, as I in general would favor rear hinge but found his version just fine. For the leather on top he had a local shop make the leather piece (see picture of an unattached one) and then he pull it over some Harbor Freight floor mat foam that he had cut down to size. Firm but not rock-hard.
5. He had other options like the power port and a lock which he said were client requests. Power port could be nice. He just provided the hole for the port and the actual plug and owners had to figure out wiring from there. If that were an option, wondering if it could be wired into the switch that judges whether the handbrake is up or down...
6. On his personal console he had a local shop make a piece of stitched leather which he ran down the front edge along with some metal trim so that it matched the front console but I don't believe that he sold them that way to clients. It did look nicely finished though. You can see the folded/glued edge if you look closely but it looked fine especially when closed.
Overall very nice. I agree that it is perhaps longer rear-ward than it needs to be and the suggestion above to change the rear slant may help that. It did have a good amount of storage room which is somewhat nice - the glovebox is great but things in a glovebox always seem to get jumbled around in a way that the console avoids. This length also meant that there wasn't really a need for any sliding to the top - it came forward far enough for my elbow to rest nicely on it when sitting in driving position but was long enough that I didn't feel I had to balance on a small pad. One thing to consider is the way in which the shape plays into the general feel of the car. He said one of his primary motivations for making this was a feeling that there's a beautiful dash with its wood, nice front console, nice leather seats with metal trim and then this big gaping hole in the middle with a gigantic handbrake just sitting there. I have seen some cars with very small armrests and wonder whether something very tiny would feel out of place with the feel of this interior. Just something to consider.
In the end it would be easier to source an armrest piece as Scott noted above and then perhaps use Eric's methods to form the actual box. Most of the cost is in the top, as the console itself is plastic, some carpet, a bottom bracket and then the work to cut and put together. Given that the cutting technology these days is so much more advanced and outsourced these days than a decade ago, with enough volume we could likely get all of the parts cut and edged, then its just the assembly and figuring out the top. Excited to see what the group puts together...
First off, have to say that I had only seen this console in pictures before, which are inevitably somewhat dark and hard to see, and I am very impressed with the console he created. He designed the whole thing and built it out of parts that he obtained from local shops and for the most part it looks very professional and for $250 was a steal, I'd argue. He told me that he made about 40 of them and then just stopped because it was taking too long and taking away from restoring the various cars he had - currently including an E9, an Austin, Triumph TR6, a beautiful Malaga 2002, an E34 and some BMW motorcycles as well as a nice late 1960s Volvo. He and I geeked out about the shared German-British car dual-ownership. He also is one step ahead of me in having collected some nice 1:18 size models of his cars - I have also decided to join that club and have slowly been finding these for as cheaply (i.e. not!) as possible
OK, on to the console. For those who haven't seen it, going to summarize here in words as well as pictures for any engineers (@ScottAndrews) in the bunch.
1. He made these out of HDPE 0.5" plastic. This was a great choice. It has a textured outer surface, is very strong, easy to cut with table saw or router and unlike melamine it's the same the whole way through, so after cutting you can just round off an edge and it looks finished. Wood/plywood is obviously an option but then requires vinyl or leather covering which adds complexity and expense. For the sides and front/back he made a sliding dovetail cut in the panel and the corresponding edge to the pieces that slide in. In this way he could lay down a line of glue, slide the parts together and the combination of the glue and inherent strength made the box secure. These sheets are generally available - quick example here showing a price of about $500 for a 4.5' x 8' board which clearly could make a fair number of boxes. He started with a plywood "form" as a template - somehow I took a picture of the 2002 one instead of the E9 one but you can get the idea.
2. The sliding cupholder is likewise just a piece of thinner plastic that slides along two routed channels on the inside of the larger side panel with a stop at the end to prevent it being pulled all of the way out. This part has a little "stickiness" as you pull it out but feels fine.
3. There is a metal bracket that sits on the bottom edge of the console sides bridging them together just like the way our front console sides are attached at the level of the floor. This metal bracket would allow someone to secure the console to the floor. The bracket is covered over with a piece of carpet as you can see in the pictures linked above.
4. The top. This one is the more challenging part. I've attached a few photos of the top. As you can see, it's underside is piece of the plastic 12" long and 4.5" wide. The hinge and metal flat bar are items that Eric said he got at Lowe's and then cut down to fit. The other side of the hinge is slotted into a groove on one of the console sides, which you can see in the photo showing the width of the console. This part is perhaps a weak point - he said that one member had told him that that thinner outer edge of plastic had broken off in his console. There are no screws securing that side of the hinge, it just sits down in there. Obviously having the hinge along the long edge works from a strength standpoint, as mentioned above (perhaps) less ideal from access standpoint although my thoughts before and after seeing it changed somewhat, as I in general would favor rear hinge but found his version just fine. For the leather on top he had a local shop make the leather piece (see picture of an unattached one) and then he pull it over some Harbor Freight floor mat foam that he had cut down to size. Firm but not rock-hard.
5. He had other options like the power port and a lock which he said were client requests. Power port could be nice. He just provided the hole for the port and the actual plug and owners had to figure out wiring from there. If that were an option, wondering if it could be wired into the switch that judges whether the handbrake is up or down...
6. On his personal console he had a local shop make a piece of stitched leather which he ran down the front edge along with some metal trim so that it matched the front console but I don't believe that he sold them that way to clients. It did look nicely finished though. You can see the folded/glued edge if you look closely but it looked fine especially when closed.
Overall very nice. I agree that it is perhaps longer rear-ward than it needs to be and the suggestion above to change the rear slant may help that. It did have a good amount of storage room which is somewhat nice - the glovebox is great but things in a glovebox always seem to get jumbled around in a way that the console avoids. This length also meant that there wasn't really a need for any sliding to the top - it came forward far enough for my elbow to rest nicely on it when sitting in driving position but was long enough that I didn't feel I had to balance on a small pad. One thing to consider is the way in which the shape plays into the general feel of the car. He said one of his primary motivations for making this was a feeling that there's a beautiful dash with its wood, nice front console, nice leather seats with metal trim and then this big gaping hole in the middle with a gigantic handbrake just sitting there. I have seen some cars with very small armrests and wonder whether something very tiny would feel out of place with the feel of this interior. Just something to consider.
In the end it would be easier to source an armrest piece as Scott noted above and then perhaps use Eric's methods to form the actual box. Most of the cost is in the top, as the console itself is plastic, some carpet, a bottom bracket and then the work to cut and put together. Given that the cutting technology these days is so much more advanced and outsourced these days than a decade ago, with enough volume we could likely get all of the parts cut and edged, then its just the assembly and figuring out the top. Excited to see what the group puts together...
OK, JC has officially taken over the mantle for the longest post author!!
That was really interesting. Thanks!
I am of a mind to screw and glue the sides and ends together using flat head countersunk screws, and then cover the box in leather or vinyl, so it matches the forward console.
That would presumably give the box a little more strength than the glued dovetail joint. Also easier to cut out.
The hinge in the slot approach is interesting. Again, using screws through the side to capture the hinge would add strength, and prevent the cracking you mentioned.
I would use a small round-over router bit to ease all of the edges of the cut plastic, and, for me, probably lose the cup holder. In a white leather interior car, coffee and drinks are verboten..
Update the power outlet to a typical USB A/C socket, which could also be run under the carpet to connect a phone to a hide-away media player.
I really like how it integrates the brake handle, and your point about the gaping hole with the big ugly handle is spot on!!
That was really interesting. Thanks!
I am of a mind to screw and glue the sides and ends together using flat head countersunk screws, and then cover the box in leather or vinyl, so it matches the forward console.
That would presumably give the box a little more strength than the glued dovetail joint. Also easier to cut out.
The hinge in the slot approach is interesting. Again, using screws through the side to capture the hinge would add strength, and prevent the cracking you mentioned.
I would use a small round-over router bit to ease all of the edges of the cut plastic, and, for me, probably lose the cup holder. In a white leather interior car, coffee and drinks are verboten..
Update the power outlet to a typical USB A/C socket, which could also be run under the carpet to connect a phone to a hide-away media player.
I really like how it integrates the brake handle, and your point about the gaping hole with the big ugly handle is spot on!!