CSL Headliner

[Markos]

Okay here is my original comparison between the factory CS headliner and SMS:

I think the black fabric is identical but the dark color obscures the difference in the perforations. Splitting hairs here.

The original perforation appears to be molded, not cut. Either that or cut with heat to maintain the shape. They are not holes, they are pyramids with visible texture and clear walls.

 

[rsporsche]

Markos, you are correct, the original does not have perforations, they are an embossed pyramids which look like perforations. they are also bigger on the original than any repros

 

[bavbob]

Phone camera is not the best but....first is original headliner, second is original (right) and SMS on the left in my car. Color is identical, just shadowing of the cowl on the right and the sunroof on the left. The difference is not as dramatic as it looks. The white SMS I got is identical to the black posted by James30 and I know this becasue they sent me a sample of both when I first inquired. Basic difference I think is that the perforations on the SMS are more fine

 

[rsporsche]

the other difference that you can see in your left / right image above. the embossings / perforations on the original are in a diamond pattern where the SMS is a rotated square pattern. this is just picky detail - when its in place most people probably would not notice that.

 

[Krzysztof]

I wonder if such a pattern can be reserved by original manufacturer which could be a reason why others are "just" trying to approach it but not copy it.

Is the proper name if such thing is registered utility model?

 

[Markos]

the other difference that you can see in your left / right image above. the embossings / perforations on the original are in a diamond pattern where the SMS is a rotated square pattern. this is just picky detail - when its in place most people probably would not notice that.

Great observation!

 

[bavbob]

Interestingly, the head liner in my 72 Bavaria matches the SMS if you get rid of the perforations. Looks much like the second image in Markos' post above.

 

[kramco]

Thank-you all, this is great information and imagery to work with, much appreciated!

 

[merdad]

CSL

 

[Markos]

CSL
View attachment 155143

Do we want to talk headrests next? My CSL headrests do not use perforated headliner material. The pivots are black, but the rods that clip into the catches are white. For those that aren’t aware, the rods do pull out. I would love to know if they were originally black.

Are the visors above CS visors painted black?

Here are my visors. Note that the vinyl is never been cut or opened. Neither visor has a mirror. One visor shows signs of a rectangular sticker that was once applied. I have read that many CSL owners have a vanity mirror I suspected that I didn’t have a mirror because the visors are from a RHD CSL. However, some RHD csl’s had a vanity mirror. I don’t have info on carb CSL visors but the exports suggest that they are different.

Are the white “catches” original? They can be swapped with a CS.

Sticker residue:

Note, this is the same material later found on the e12:

Interesting that the CSL headliner and visors are “special”, but very few BaT listings showcase the headliner. I suppose it is because it is a minute detail that few care about.

Edit: At any rate, I think BaT confirmed that the visor catch rods were indeed white. However, it is a 50/50 split on cars that have what I believe and evidence suggests are factory original visors. No claims on the headliners below, just the visors. I suspect that two of these cars had the visors restuffed. Mine are like deflated leftover pancakes.

Additional references:

CSL with black sun-shields/visors?

As I know there are several members on this Forum who own a CSL, my very deep and scientific question is the following: How many of you have the black sun-shields/visors with the small and integrated make-up mirror on the passenger side? On my CSL 1973, I have a passenger sun-shield...

e9coupe.com

CSL with black sun-shields/visors?

As I know there are several members on this Forum who own a CSL, my very deep and scientific question is the following: How many of you have the black sun-shields/visors with the small and integrated make-up mirror on the passenger side? On my CSL 1973, I have a passenger sun-shield...

e9coupe.com

 

[kramco]

Thanks for everyone's help on this, I just received a sample from SMS and as @Markos showed, it's bang on! Now just need to find some headliner rods...

 

[bavbob]

The thickness of the SMS will show itself when running the alum strip along the headliner edge, especially where the two small rivets are for the "front cowl". Also if you have a sunroof, the liner edges are folded and the sunroof components fit on top of this. The entire sunroof will sit a mm higher than flush and will have to be adjusted.

 

[mark99]

I have 2 sets of SMS if someone wants to buy it
They are both white, ish, one is more off than the other

The SMS pattern is close to original, just soft, like slightly melted, but pretty close
Closer than any other sample I found

Both sets they sent me are rather thick, but the presumably original part I is used is also thick (one reason I wonder about it being original) but the pattern is spot on

The SMS, 'white' or black is from the same tooling as far as I can tell


The problem with thick material is if you have a sunroof, mine won't close and I am not sure how to fix it

 

[bavbob]

Mark, I had my sunroof closed, put some fluffy towels on it and then a 1/4 inch piece of plywood over the entire sunroof. On that I put about 30 pounds of free weights and left this for about a week. This was during the summer but inside. It worked for me.

 

[mark99]

Mark, I had my sunroof closed, put some fluffy towels on it and then a 1/4 inch piece of plywood over the entire sunroof. On that I put about 30 pounds of free weights and left this for about a week. This was during the summer but inside. It worked for me.

thanks, I don't think that will work for me, I can't get it to close, the problem I think is the corners where several layers overlay
I think I will try un-pealing the corners and try to thin the material there

 

[mark99]

The thickness of the SMS will show itself when running the alum strip along the headliner edge, especially where the two small rivets are for the "front cowl". Also if you have a sunroof, the liner edges are folded and the sunroof components fit on top of this. The entire sunroof will sit a mm higher than flush and will have to be adjusted.

the material I used (not SMS) was rather thick, probably similar to SMS, and the trim was not too big an issue, I did have to expand it a small amount, it doesn't change the final appearance

 

[bavbob]

Did you do any adjustment on the sunroof after the new headliner. I set mine as high above the roof as it would go to get it to close, then brought it down. If you do that, as it closes, put some downward force on it so the top does not scratch as it moves.

I said in the past that Hagerty says to raise the price by 15% with a sunroof, I think it should be 25%. For the little you use it, it is a PIA.

 

[mark99]

Did you do any adjustment on the sunroof after the new headliner. I set mine as high above the roof as it would go to get it to close, then brought it down. If you do that, as it closes, put some downward force on it so the top does not scratch as it moves.

I said in the past that Hagerty says to raise the price by 15% with a sunroof, I think it should be 25%. For the little you use it, it is a PIA.

25% ha ha, and 50% for new dashboard
No I didn't try the adjustment, will try, thanks

 

[coupeguy]

I had this stuff made by SMS auto fabrics in Oregon (?) circa 2015. They made a short run, and I don't know if they made any more. I had a torn up original headliner and they copied it. The pattern is not the same as regular CS, so it's not just the color that is different, IIRC. My CSL is up in New Hampshire getting some work, so I can't go look at it. If SMS still has some, you could ask them to send you a sample.

I am not sure if he is still active, but Dan in Colorado may also have some of the SMS repro in his inventory.

https://www.coupeguy.com/

I no longer have the repros avail, but it is correct that the pattern is very different from a stock CS headliner, and I believe it was SMS that supplied the material. I am still active selling parts.

 

[Markos]

I no longer have the repros avail, but it is correct that the pattern is very different from a stock CS headliner, and I believe it was SMS that supplied the material. I am still active selling parts.

I disagree. I have both factory CS and CSL headliners. The only difference is the color. I even included pictures of both on the previous page.