CSL's sold $400,000.

Discussion in 'E9 General Discussion' started by coupelady, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. coupelady

    coupelady Member

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Heard from Richard Conway yesterday that he had learned that 2 CSL town cars (non Bat) sold for $400,000 each! He did not say where but it was in the US. They were perfectly restored.

    (Richard was very involved with CSL's in the 80's and 90's. We both were astounded.)

    Time to up your value on your car? I am talking to Hagerty currently about changing my stated value on my CS. Ben, at Hagerty, said that the #1 Concours restored CS shows $65,000 in their value literature. They update their ratings 4 times a year this quote is from May.

    Hooray, it seemed that our beloved CS languished at $20,000 for years, we have been discovered!
     
  2. BMW Pete

    BMW Pete Active Member Site Donor

    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Seattle WA
    ??? surprised .......I am.

    Hi Coupelady,

    Well, I will never say never, because one never knows:)

    But, I do have to wonder if there has been a slight mix up or miscommunication here.

    There have been two series one BATs sold in the last little while, both by Bruce Canepa, one for just under $400k and one just over. Bruce has never been known to leave many coins on the table for anybody else, so I would consider that approaching the top end.

    I certainly wouldn't want to doubt Richard, he is without a doubt an important part of the E9 hobby and his name will always be significant in its history, especially the preservation of the great race cars.

    I would be very, very happy if the prices mentioned were correct, but at this time, I would have to just double check everything back to source, as this does seem over market to me.

    I will ask around, but if anybody else has knowledge of these prices being achieved, please do educate/correct me.
     
  3. deQuincey

    deQuincey Well-Known Member Site Donor

    View My Garage
    Messages:
    5,526
    Likes Received:
    382
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    bilbao
    i simply can not see a reason for a cheers and hooray moment after this kind of information
    the e9 is going seriously up in price ? i can only see disadvantages
    am i the only one ?
     
  4. m73

    m73 Active Member

    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    NW
    I agree 100%.

    It seems to me that value is only important when you want to sell.

    And expensive cars=expensive maintenance.

    It is all relative & only important to exploit or become exploited.

    I personally love driving my car and maintaining it. I cringe at the fact I will be charged ludacris prices and would hate to force others to do so.

    My .02 cents

    MF
     
  5. italiangerman

    italiangerman Member Site Donor $

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    $65k perfect CS

    with a $65k number on a perfect CS (course we know there is perfect and then there is perrrrfect at Charlie Sheen would say), I think that means most of us can feel OK about dropping a few more bucks into our favorite car.
    Re the CSL prices, I would also double check to see if there are really 2 non-bat cars that went for approx. $400k. It is amazing enough that the perfectly restored BAT is at that number, but there are only so many of those. Any guess on the number of BATs in the USA?
     
  6. deQuincey

    deQuincey Well-Known Member Site Donor

    View My Garage
    Messages:
    5,526
    Likes Received:
    382
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    bilbao
    +1
    perfectly explained, you captured all my thoughts
     
  7. RogerB

    RogerB Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Georgia USA
    $400K too high?!!?

    Bring $300K and you can have mine. }:>)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  8. MyFemurHurts

    MyFemurHurts Member Site Donor

    View My Garage
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    NorCal
    I don't plan on selling mine anytime soon, but if I have to, or when I want to, I can see advantages of this new information.
     
  9. Rek

    Rek Active Member Site Donor

    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Islington London England
    I have to agree with this. The production numbers, those which have disappeared and desirability mean that it's only a matter of time before general values increase.

    From my perspective its a bit of backward logic to not welcome this trend. Its like saying that your shares in Utility Companies have gone up, but thats bad because you'll have to pay more for your power.

    it certainly means the blood sweat and tears I've put in on mine is valued, even if it's not going to be sold once complete.
     
  10. OCCoupe

    OCCoupe Well-Known Member Site Donor $

    View My Garage
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    PG, CA

    Rek, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Why suppress the values, it is a natural progression for an antique to come up in value, we should enjoy the appreciation of our assets. As for parts, they are not yet scarce and many are interchangeable with more plentiful models.
     
  11. Arde

    Arde Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    Speaking dispassionately higher valuations means more E9 will be restored and saved, more crooks will do their deceptive schemes with fake VINs, owners will feel compelled to pay more for insurance else they cannot replace their loss if lightning strikes, and insurance companies will have a tougher time condemning a car.

    For plain enjoying the car high valuations are a curse as it is hard to drive the car with reckless abandon if it is too valuable, and it makes it harder to get a driver condition car in the first place. Higher valuations are a blessing if you want to get out of the hobby and never enter it again, reminiscent of Leonard Cohen's line in "Stranger Song":

    "Like any dealer he was watching for the card
    that is so high and wild
    he'll never need to deal another
    He was just some Joseph looking for a manger
    He was just some Joseph looking for a manger"
     
  12. BMW Pete

    BMW Pete Active Member Site Donor

    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Seattle WA
    Guys,

    With the greatest respect to people who obviously feel differently and at the risk of repeating myself as I have said similar before.

    This is just the reality of a free market and us picking such a wonderful automobile to drive and admire, especially compared to its competition in the day.

    It happens in all markets, Art, Jewelry, Property, etc. I can't buy the Wilfredo Lam painting I would love because they have shot up in price the last few years, but 10-15 years ago, they were around a $50k and I couldn't afford that then, now they are $1m - $1.5m for a great one. Should they have remained at $50k or maybe they should have remained at the price Wilfredo originally sold them for, which I would guess was a few hundred dollars?

    Come on guys, its rather silly to expect the market to not move in natural directions, both up and down. The arguments put forth for why they shouldn't move, does not hold water, at least with me it doesn't .........Not everybody should have the right to own a Wilfredo Lam or a Picasso, unless of course we are now saying communism is they way to go........ the conversation then might be about a loaf of bread :)

    We at least can rest assured we had the eye for something fine and gorgeous that was undervalued for so long..........we knew how wonderful they were/are, sadly now everybody knows it or is starting too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  13. twistinglane

    twistinglane Member Site Donor

    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Maryland
    Well, just a point of view, but a CSL bubble doesn't concern me too much. Seems to me the money is going into them as collectibles not for what additional they offer as cars. All well and good if have money that need to do something with.
    Now our "regular" e9s are also beautiful and performing cars. And there are enough of them that hope they continue to thrill car guys, and not just be collection items.
     
  14. MyFemurHurts

    MyFemurHurts Member Site Donor

    View My Garage
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    NorCal
    I'm 31. I'd imagine in my life time normal E9's will turn into collectables.
     
  15. Markos

    Markos Parts Hoarder Staff Member Site Donor $$

    View My Garage
    Messages:
    6,725
    Likes Received:
    1,498
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I agree. Eccentric buyer purchase price may impact a long term trend, but it certainly doesn't baseline values. Go watch the folks with more money than sense at the Barret Jackson auction. I mean no disrespect to the e9 buyers and builders. They are beautify pieces of work and I'm happy for the new owners. Please visit!

    The E9 is a bit odd in that the $400K cars are fundamentally the same car as the $35K models. One could build a bat clone well under $100K, equal to or greater in performance. Like art, the clone will never be the same value, or even close. You need to take your practical engineering hat off, as collectibles make no rational sense.
     
  16. Arde

    Arde Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    Wilfredo Lam? Is that a new Lamborghini? Wilfredo Lambo maybe?
     
  17. John Buchtenkirch

    John Buchtenkirch Member

    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Glen Cove, Long Island, NY
    On a positive note if interest in our coupes spikes we could possibly end up with new sources of no longer available parts. Wouldn’t it be nice if some company (and it doesn’t have to be BMW) made door gaskets or windshields that fit correctly or new rubberized hair seat cushions or the body panels that aren’t available and maybe even a source for new red handle screw drivers. Worldwide there’s a lot of talented people and companies making reproduction parts but if there is no or little interest in our coupes there isn’t going to be any interest by them in tooling up for our cars. ~ John Buchtenkirch
     
  18. Rek

    Rek Active Member Site Donor

    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Islington London England
    I don't drive with reckless abandon so higher values wouldn't bother me in that regard.

    I will happily pay a higher insurance cost for a higher value car but will make sure it's covered.

    Higher values will also drive out the con-men who seem to inhabit the classified car ads, mean more cars are restored rather than scrapped for parts.

    Normal E9's will go the same way but not to the extent of the CSL's. Look at the Porsche 911 market for a comparison.

    So - are higher values, good for an ownership proposition and for the future of the model?

    Abso-bloody-lutely! (Sorry - too British)
     
  19. Aussiecsi

    Aussiecsi Active Member

    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    114
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    At least with rising values it's easier to justify the "investment " resto expenses with the wife/other should the "secret file " ever be found ! Also, for anyone that's owned/restored or maintained a boat /yacht for their hobby ,E9 ownership is "cheap "...when did someone last make money on their boat ?!.:lol:
     
  20. HB Chris

    HB Chris Well-Known Member Site Donor

    View My Garage
    Messages:
    9,921
    Likes Received:
    908
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Pete,

    I love your take on our amazing coupes. Of course I'm on the Danube right now enjoying the Wachau Valley and I've had too much wine. Life is good!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice