Engine Removal

Bav3.5

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What is the easiest way to remove & install an engine from the Bav? I've heard many differences of opinion among the following:

-Engine by itself if you can access the bellhousing bolts
-Engine + Tranny using hoist
-Engine by itself, then pull tranny after engine is removed, and install both as one unit
-Drop Engine + Tranny on the subframe (under the car) using multiple jacks

I have a cherry picker and a load leveler and this will be done on a driveway.

I would appreciate any comments and direct experiences. Also, any tips would be great. Thanks.

Tim
 

HB Chris

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Tim,

I am removing in this order: exhaust, driveshaft, trans, bell housing, radiator, alt, P/S pump and then lifting engine from top per Dons recommendation.
 

sfdon

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Ummm- got to remove the clutch and flywheel too !
 

ahab

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I've done this on E28s dozens of times and while the running gear is ultimately the same, the direction of the hood opening is a big difference. I have yet to do it on my Bav so I don't know if it's common knowledge that you *must* remove the hood, or if it's worth the trouble to work around it. Personally I'm not very excited about disturbing the factory alignment on the hood but you will have to remove it for this method.

My preferred approach to pulling an M30 is to completely disconnect the motor and gearbox from the car, leaving the only the motor mounts and gearbox crossmember attached. Remove the bellhousing bolts which are easily accessible along the bottom. If you weren't planning on it, you'll need to remove the radiator as well. Put a rolling floorjack under the tail of the gearbox and remove the crossmember, lowering the gearbox enough to remove the crossmember. Connect the engine hoist to the motor at the two lifting points and lift the engine up off the motor mounts, enough so that you can completely remove the mounts. Lower the motor as far as you can without touching and roll the hoist and motor/gearbox forward to expose all the bellhousing bolts along the top. This makes that part of the job (which is arguably the hardest) a non-issue. Once all the bellhousing bolts are out you can slide the motor forward and the gearbox back to separate them, and leave the gearbox resting on the jack and crossmember/subframe as you hoist the motor up and out.

The factory preferred method is to drop the subframe with the motor and gearbox attached but IMO this is hardly a practical maneuver in a driveway using jackstands.
 

Luis A.

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I've only done it 3 times but with different approaches. This is the perspective of someone working alone. Removing is much easier than dropping it in. With a few socket extensions I was able to undo the bellhousing (not hard at all) after removing the tranny like ahab as described. Have done both the auto (ZF3HP22) in the E3 and the 4 speed on the E9. Both of those boxes are light enough that I've done the 'bench press' style removal and insertion but bought a Harbor Freight tranny jack and it made the process much easier and less stressful for the last one. I'm not implying this is THE way to do it just sharing my limited experience. I'm sure those of you who have done it dozens of times can likely do it *any* way and still be competent at it.

I dropped the engine in the E3 from below along with the subframe. For that I had 3 helpers but none of them an expert and it took longer than it took doing it by myself the second time I did it, alone. I did not want to mess with hood alignment, especially in light of the car being recently painted:
P1070411.JPG


The second time it was on the E9 and I went from above as the hood was removed for engine compartment painting. That was far more difficult for me, even with with my 14 YO son helping, than the other two. The way the engine balances from the two lift points places it at an angle that is too horizontal to drop onto the mounts, even with them pretty loose all around. I had to use a small come-along strap to place the engine on a more vertical plane and it still didn't quite align with the mounts. A real struggle. No humor to take pictures of that one. Aligning the hood on the coupe was not trivial. That can be a thread all on its own. But since doing the 'drop' from below is so much easier, avoiding the whole hood project is just an added benefit.

The last engine 'drop' was on the E9, done from below with subframe and did it by myself. Not bad at all. BTW, credit goes to Mike Pugh and the '02 guys from whom I picked this up. You can see in the photo below that two floor jacks raise each side gradually, with jackstands supporting all the way, until I had 31-32" clearance on the front such that the subframe assembly mounted on an HF ATV jack (with a surplus cabinet board bolted on top) fit under the vehicle. No need to do it on the driveway even if you have a low garage roof, which I have. The body then gets lowered gradually until each side approaches the subframe mounting base. Longer bolts temporarily assist in the initial docking of the subframe to the body. All ordinary safety precautions I've not outlined here apply. Be careful and use common sense.
P1100864.JPG


P1100866.JPG
 

Stevehose

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Luis, where did you get the wheel chocks and are they anchored to the floor in any way? that's enough to keep it from rolling backwards as you raise the front?
 

E911

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drop it...

if you have a two post lift > drop it out the bottom, tranny and front suspension all at once. great time to clean up everything and inspect.
 

Luis A.

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Steve,

They are autoparts store chocks I've had for years. Not anchored. Also, I just redid the brake system all around and readjusted the handbrake and shoes so they grab very tightly within 3 clicks. The floor jacks are large and have rubber tops thus the car just can't slide off them very easily at all. It's very solidly in place. You can push on the front and it just won't roll. It may appear that the angle is so steep that it wants to roll back but that isn't the case.
 

Stevehose

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another question, do you jack it all the way up then apply the parking brake at the end or is there another technique?

Steve,

They are autoparts store chocks I've had for years. Not anchored. Also, I just redid the brake system all around and readjusted the handbrake and shoes so they grab very tightly within 3 clicks. The floor jacks are large and have rubber tops thus the car just can't slide off them very easily at all. It's very solidly in place. You can push on the front and it just won't roll. It may appear that the angle is so steep that it wants to roll back but that isn't the case.
 

Luis A.

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I apply the parking brake before I start lifting it up. I don't recall if the tires give and slip or if the car moves back as you lift, if that's why you're asking (I know you're a detailed, deep thinker...) Either effect is so small that I frankly didn't notice. I just don't want that car running away from me as I lift...
 

windnsea

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Take off the hood and lift the engine and trans out together. Need to unbolt the add-ons and remove the radiator, then it just lifts up and out.

... a 1 person job.

... have done it many times on E3's
 

lloyd

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I've only done it 3 times but with different approaches. This is the perspective of someone working alone. Removing is much easier than dropping it in. With a few socket extensions I was able to undo the bellhousing (not hard at all) after removing the tranny like ahab as described. Have done both the auto (ZF3HP22) in the E3 and the 4 speed on the E9. Both of those boxes are light enough that I've done the 'bench press' style removal and insertion but bought a Harbor Freight tranny jack and it made the process much easier and less stressful for the last one. I'm not implying this is THE way to do it just sharing my limited experience. I'm sure those of you who have done it dozens of times can likely do it *any* way and still be competent at it.

I dropped the engine in the E3 from below along with the subframe. For that I had 3 helpers but none of them an expert and it took longer than it took doing it by myself the second time I did it, alone. I did not want to mess with hood alignment, especially in light of the car being recently painted:
P1070411.JPG


The second time it was on the E9 and I went from above as the hood was removed for engine compartment painting. That was far more difficult for me, even with with my 14 YO son helping, than the other two. The way the engine balances from the two lift points places it at an angle that is too horizontal to drop onto the mounts, even with them pretty loose all around. I had to use a small come-along strap to place the engine on a more vertical plane and it still didn't quite align with the mounts. A real struggle. No humor to take pictures of that one. Aligning the hood on the coupe was not trivial. That can be a thread all on its own. But since doing the 'drop' from below is so much easier, avoiding the whole hood project is just an added benefit.

The last engine 'drop' was on the E9, done from below with subframe and did it by myself. Not bad at all. BTW, credit goes to Mike Pugh and the '02 guys from whom I picked this up. You can see in the photo below that two floor jacks raise each side gradually, with jackstands supporting all the way, until I had 31-32" clearance on the front such that the subframe assembly mounted on an HF ATV jack (with a surplus cabinet board bolted on top) fit under the vehicle. No need to do it on the driveway even if you have a low garage roof, which I have. The body then gets lowered gradually until each side approaches the subframe mounting base. Longer bolts temporarily assist in the initial docking of the subframe to the body. All ordinary safety precautions I've not outlined here apply. Be careful and use common sense.
P1100864.JPG


P1100866.JPG



This might offer a different take on things. Image misidentifies car as '02, but readers here know better.;-)




02factorybodyENGINEINSTALL.jpg~original
 

Bwana

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I dropped the engine in the E3 from below along with the subframe. For that I had 3 helpers but none of them an expert and it took longer than it took doing it by myself the second time I did it, alone. I did not want to mess with hood alignment, especially in light of the car being recently painted:
P1070411.JPG




The last engine 'drop' was on the E9, done from below with subframe and did it by myself. Not bad at all. BTW, credit goes to Mike Pugh and the '02 guys from whom I picked this up. You can see in the photo below that two floor jacks raise each side gradually, with jackstands supporting all the way, until I had 31-32" clearance on the front such that the subframe assembly mounted on an HF ATV jack (with a surplus cabinet board bolted on top) fit under the vehicle.

I too will probably be doing this myself on my e3 so good info.

In the picture above, I can't tell if the trans is still connected to the bell housing or not? Are you dropping the whole assembly or just the engine/bell housing and leaving the trans in place?

When you mention 31"-32" clearance, about where are you measuring that, the back of the subframe or the front of the lower cowling? I've got a low ceiling too.

I take it you just kept alternating cranking on the floor jacks, then adjusting the jackstands, on up until you had enough clearance to roll out the assembly.
 

Luis A.

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In the E3 engine placement seen in the picture the automatic box was attached to the engine. For the E9 placement I did by myself I placed the engine and then the 4 speed gearbox with the HF transmission jack.

The 31-32" measurement is at the lowest point of the front apron/cowling of the car. That will be variable depending on how high the highest point of your engine is on the trolley/jack.

You're correct on the procedure for raising the car. In addition, the rubber pads on top of the jacks not only protect the car but also are grippy enough to assist in preventing the car from sliding. A solid parking brake and chocks on the rear wheels make the whole thing unmovable.
 
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