Hard to diagnose running problems - need to fix before Legends of the East!

E9Wayne

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In my ignorance I wold think that the dash lights being off points to a coarse electrical problem. AFAIK dash lights do not go through the ignition switch or load shading relay, so it must be the 12V or ground themselves that are intermittent. No fuse blown suggests it is not an intermittent short.
Data logging? Do E9s log data to a flash device?
Hi Arde, that is one of the advantages of Megasquirt. Not only can you finely calibrate the startup and running characteristics by programming the ECU, the data logging feature records your driving and various parameters for later analysis...
 

E9Wayne

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Wayne - Let's return, shall we, to the 2017 Vintage. I recall driving in the pouring rain when Tom signaled me that he needed to pull over. His drivers' side wiper blade had departed his vehicle at speed and he was left without a wiper in the pouring rain. We pulled over, switched the passenger side wiper to the drivers' side, and safety wired it on so he could make it home.

Now, if I remember the sequence correctly, during the stop to repair Tom's car, you had a hard time restarting your car. I remember giving you a jump, which for some reason got you going again.

View attachment 150026

You then had trouble restarting later at the pump when we stopped for gas.

After we got home, Tom determined the problem was electrical, and, I think he did a wiring repair in your trunk. Not sure if this was fuel pump related; memory is a little hazy here. Anyway, I toss this out there following up on Arde's comment.
Thanks, Chris, as I recall that was traced to a short in the wiring to the fuel pump relay. The wiring was mounted close to a seat rail and contact there to an exposed portion of the wiring was causing the failure to start.
 

Arde

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Hi Arde, that is one of the advantages of Megasquirt. Not only can you finely calibrate the startup and running characteristics by programming the ECU, the data logging feature records your driving and various parameters for later analysis...
That is nice!
If it logs where I went I would rather stay with carb anonymity...
 

E9Wayne

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We need to go in to Tuner Studio and run your fuel pump by itself.
sorry Don, what does this mean and how do I do that? Do you suspect some intermittent fuel pump issues from my data log? Thanks!
 

E9Wayne

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Well folks, I think the mystery has been solved. After replacing several parts and checking components, I was able to get three 30 minute test drives yesterday without incident. I'll feel more comfortable (after some out of town company is with us this weekend) taking a few longer drives early next week to better ensure I can make the 500+ mile (each way) drive to Hilton Head the week after next. To recap, I've had the crankshaft position sensor replaced, rebuilt the ignition switch and replaced the coil. After all of that, the car was still shutting off and sometimes switching back on but more often needing a restart or two to get running.

Don Lawrence and Chris Pederson suggested looking at a few more things including my starter wiring, battery and, finally, the ECU and fuel pump relays. So I removed my ECU from its bracket above the glove box to expose the two relays and first replaced the ECU with a good spare I had. Two test drives later, the shutoff only occured once or twice and so I replaced the fuel pump relay after that. Same results - fewer shutoffs but not eliminated. Chris P then noticed from one of my photos I had sent him that the relays were not securely anchored in their plastic receiver and I tried tightening them both but a secure attachment didn't seem possible. He suggested some zip ties next around the whole unit and I did that, two per relay. After trying to restart in my garage, the car would turn over but not start and she exhibited some strange mechanical noises like a starter struggling..she did fire up eventually but then quickly died out. This was a new problem. So I went back to the ECU relay, thinking the zip ties were on too tight and they were. Removing one of them on the ECU relay seemed to return the relay to its proper orientation and she started up and ran well for the three drives mentioned above.

For now I've returned the relays to their position above the ECU and anchored the whole assembly like before and I won't touch anything until after Legends of the East!

Wish me luck next week that the test drives continue to be uneventful so I can take my girl down south with Andrew and Doug on November 3.

It's really amazing living with these cars after so many years and experiencing the weird mechanical issues you encounter along the way, many of which seem to have no precedent on this board. You learn a lot about how older BMWs work, and cars in general, of course, thanks to the folks on this board and my trusty mechanic/technicians in Alameda. But it also deepens the bond with our cars and our E9 community when perserverance and some sweat and tears gets you to a solution and a better way of keeping our cars running well. (My solution is temporary for now and will need attending to after Hilton Head for a more secure and lasting fix).

At least I shouldn't have to worry about the crankshaft position sensor (which showed some cracks in the wiring near the sensor) or my coil (which also had significant cracks in the plastic casing around it) in future trips.

Thanks all, and especially to Don and Chris P! (I hope this is my last post in this thread.)
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Wayne - Let's return, shall we, to the 2017 Vintage. I recall driving in the pouring rain when Tom signaled me that he needed to pull over. His drivers' side wiper blade had departed his vehicle at speed and he was left without a wiper in the pouring rain. We pulled over, switched the passenger side wiper to the drivers' side, and safety wired it on so he could make it home.
Now, if I remember the sequence correctly, during the stop to repair Tom's car, you had a hard time restarting your car. I remember giving you a jump, which for some reason got you going again.

View attachment 150026

You then had trouble restarting later at the pump when we stopped for gas.

After we got home, Tom determined the problem was electrical, and, I think he did a wiring repair in your trunk. Not sure if this was fuel pump related; memory is a little hazy here. Anyway, I toss this out there following up on Arde's comment.
and to Chris Ohmes, I thought I replied to your post but I gess not - that problem then was caused by a wire to the fuel pump shorting out against a seat rail. Once Tom Baruch found that out and reinsulated the wire my problem went away.
.
 

DWMBMW

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Still waiting to find out who the Hollywood Celeb was who wanted to buy your coupe. They might not have had enough time to bond with the car and willing to fight the gremlins.

Good luck on the trip but you also have a great support group driving with you.

Last year Drew and I found a “very” good mechanic from Germany just outside of Hilton Head when he had electrical issues if needed.

Doug
 

Dick Steinkamp

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I hope that's it. Electrical problems can be such buggers.

It would bother me a little that the relays have to be inserted just right in order for things to work. In your shake down cruises, be sure to try some bumpy roads and hard cornering and braking. Maybe consider replacing the relay sockets as well as the relays themselves? The fact that the dash lights come on when it quits (post 16) mystifies me.
 

lip277

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Us analog carb guys don't have these problems :p Glad it's fixed, at least now if you have troubles on the way you know where to fiddle.
LOL- but us carb guys & gals have our share of other things...
For my regular car - I remember when I got my first fuel injected car... a 1992 Ford Explorer... .I was real nervous as I did not have any of the equipment (or expertise) to work on that end of that car. 180,000 miles later - never had to. :)
 

E9Wayne

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Thanks folks, and re: the actor and movie you will find out next year before it debuts. I need to find out when I can share info on that. But I've been told my car has major screen time and is in several scenes, along with other 1960s/1970s era cars, but we will have to wait and see post editing what the results are. I was also told the actor fell in love with my car during filming and could not stop talking about buying it according to the vehicle production team. I never spoke with the actor, actually, as the deal was never finalized and he supposedly changed his mind at the 11th hour -- at that time I had already booked a trip to fly out and see Chris Macha, drive his beauty and firm the transaction up!

And yes, the base for those relays will need some attention post Legends. I plan to have Chris Pederson come out again and work on that, plus install a new/old starter and fuel pump at the very least.
 

bill

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Us analog carb guys don't have these problems :p Glad it's fixed, at least now if you have troubles on the way you know where to fiddle
Almost ready to say A-men to that...trying to find out why my D-jet equipped coupe severely hesitates when cruising. I've diagnosed almost every possible cause so far no luck ( I have a few more things to check, thanks SF Don) but the Webers are looking good again...
 

E9Wayne

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Well guys, I’m parking the coupe and taking my 16v. The issue is much better but not resolved. Paging doctor Lawrence and Chris Pederson for a house call! This was frustrating and I was hopeful the zip tie fix over the relay would work, but not the case.
 

mulberryworks

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Well guys, I’m parking the coupe and taking my 16v. The issue is much better but not resolved. Paging doctor Lawrence and Chris Pederson for a house call! This was frustrating and I was hopeful the zip tie fix over the relay would work, but not the case.
One of the classic trouble spots with 90's Volvos is the solder on the base of some of the Bosch relays. The overdrive relay was a very common one to fail. The solder would crack in a circle around the pin and sometimes only make intermittent contact depending on temps and vibration. Reflowing the solder for all the pins was easy and usually 100% effective. I also had an infrequent "no start" issue that I believe was due to oxidized connections at the ECU due to the car living near the ocean for several decades. A more frequent symptom of the same issue was that the knock sensor signal would disappear. Everything in the engine compartment was replaced and the issue remained so the connection at the other end must have been the issue. I moved away from Hawaii and so sold the car at a discount with full disclosure.

Intermittent issues are the worst to find and resolve. Keep at it and you'll get it eventually.
 

sfdon

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run a 12 gauge wire direct from battery to positive terminal of coil.

call me - at the shop today
 
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