Glad I can help, too bad we don’t have a worldwide number. Maybe 30% of 30,000 is reasonable.
Interest in reproduction lamps for the E9?
- Thread starter BitterSC
- Start date
Very interesting info. I had always wondered about this.
Is it possible expand this to estimate how many are left in the world, Chris?
BitterSC
Member
I have checked the Flensburg data base of registered cars. And of those alone there are 1160. That certainly is a good number. There are probably as many resto projects if not more.
I'm in Germany and I would definitely be interested in a set of tail lamps with European E numbered lenses.
Im currently restoring my car and after months of searching I've just about given up on finding someone who can successfully restore the pitted chrome frames of my lights. No one in Germany wants to touch "pot metal/zinc die-cast" and according to people in the e9 scene here its been increasingly more difficult to do in Europe.. I found one company who would do the chrome for "a lot of time and a lot of money and no guarantee" haha
Good to excellent condition tail lamps here are 500-900Euros (i just bought a pair) I think $600 (plus shipping) would definitely be a fair price.
I would definitely take a pair for that sort of price.
Incase it wasn't mentioned already, front turn signal lenses are readily available new already. Rear lenses are on a long waiting list..
Im currently restoring my car and after months of searching I've just about given up on finding someone who can successfully restore the pitted chrome frames of my lights. No one in Germany wants to touch "pot metal/zinc die-cast" and according to people in the e9 scene here its been increasingly more difficult to do in Europe.. I found one company who would do the chrome for "a lot of time and a lot of money and no guarantee" haha
Good to excellent condition tail lamps here are 500-900Euros (i just bought a pair) I think $600 (plus shipping) would definitely be a fair price.
I would definitely take a pair for that sort of price.
Incase it wasn't mentioned already, front turn signal lenses are readily available new already. Rear lenses are on a long waiting list..
What is Flensburg?
The North German city where the Govt Vehicle Registration headquarters is, aka KBA)
Kraftfahrtbundesamt/ KBA
en.wikipedia.org
Kraftfahrtbundesamt/ KBA
Flensburg - Wikipedia
German numbers:
Operative vehicles only which are registered/ valid plates and insured in Germany as off 01.01.2019 (accounted for once a year only)
What the non op numbers comparatively are is unknown, surely multifold.
Info curtesy of Christoph (CS-werke)
KBA #‘s
2.5 CS = 127
2800 CS = 173
3.0 CS = 456 inc. CSL
3.0 CSi = 600 inc. CSL
Operative vehicles only which are registered/ valid plates and insured in Germany as off 01.01.2019 (accounted for once a year only)
What the non op numbers comparatively are is unknown, surely multifold.
Info curtesy of Christoph (CS-werke)
KBA #‘s
2.5 CS = 127
2800 CS = 173
3.0 CS = 456 inc. CSL
3.0 CSi = 600 inc. CSL
i am not too far away (Atlanta) and might be able to help you with samples for some parts to recreate. trim + lighting is a good thing
front turn signals - lenses are readily available ... 2 styles (US market - gigantic) and euro. the frames - not so much.
front grilles - the plastic side grilles with anodized aluminum trim
complete rear tail light assemblies - the frame with lenses already put together
the panel in between the tail lights - 2 styles, one chrome covered brass, the other is anodized aluminum
license plate lights - 2 styles, the ones that go in the bumper (bmw makes them but they don't look like the originals) ... and the later style that were also used by the 320i and other late 70's / early 80's BMW.
some of the badging is NLA - such as 2800 cs
if molded plastic is an option - things like the defroster vents would be great
BTW - your license plate lamp looks like its the right thing for the early e9 lamp - ours is just chrome instead of black ... but the lens looks correct.
tell us about your window motors - they look very similar to the later e9 / e28 motors.
just a few thoughts
scott
Last edited:
He has ramped up to 5 sets a month, haha
I sell them for $360.00 for right and left
Part of my initial challenge was finding someone who could make them without charging me a mold set-up fee which was often in the thousands of dollars.
KastelikClassicCar
Member
It seems to me that it is worth mentioning one more important issue here regarding spare parts. We have already restored several E9. We are currently working with two more. Our experience shows:
1. Customers can easily exchange only those parts where there are no numbers, no trademarks
2. Customers prefer to find the old original part and regenerate it (incurring higher costs) than to buy a non-original part - this especially applies to glass, lamps etc.
We also restored an oldtimer whose production was less than 400 pieces. Tie rod theme - new parts available. The owner wanted to incur higher costs and regenerate the original rods than to buy new ones.
This is just one small example of many. I found photos from rear lamp regeneration. All original characters are there. And the frames were chromed. The question is how many customers will buy a lamp without a trademark.
Our company is able to make a lot of parts for the BMW E9, but we also have concerns whether the production costs will pay back in general.
1. Customers can easily exchange only those parts where there are no numbers, no trademarks
2. Customers prefer to find the old original part and regenerate it (incurring higher costs) than to buy a non-original part - this especially applies to glass, lamps etc.
We also restored an oldtimer whose production was less than 400 pieces. Tie rod theme - new parts available. The owner wanted to incur higher costs and regenerate the original rods than to buy new ones.
This is just one small example of many. I found photos from rear lamp regeneration. All original characters are there. And the frames were chromed. The question is how many customers will buy a lamp without a trademark.
Our company is able to make a lot of parts for the BMW E9, but we also have concerns whether the production costs will pay back in general.
Attachments
giannicsl
Well-Known Member
BitterSC
Member
Hi!
Sorry, I was on a business trip and didn't check the forum.
Sorry, I was on a business trip and didn't check the forum.
BitterSC
Member
Thanks for that list! That is also something I was interested in. What other parts might be bottle necks.
I did leave samples with the company when I was in Las Vegas but should they need others I'll contact you.
i am not too far away (Atlanta) and might be able to help you with samples for some parts to recreate. trim + lighting is a good thing
front turn signals - lenses are readily available ... 2 styles (US market - gigantic) and euro. the frames - not so much.
front grilles - the plastic side grilles with anodized aluminum trim
complete rear tail light assemblies - the frame with lenses already put together
the panel in between the tail lights - 2 styles, one chrome covered brass, the other is anodized aluminum
license plate lights - 2 styles, the ones that go in the bumper (bmw makes them but they don't look like the originals) ... and the later style that were also used by the 320i and other late 70's / early 80's BMW.
some of the badging is NLA - such as 2800 cs
if molded plastic is an option - things like the defroster vents would be great
BTW - your license plate lamp looks like its the right thing for the early e9 lamp - ours is just chrome instead of black ... but the lens looks correct.
tell us about your window motors - they look very similar to the later e9 / e28 motors.
just a few thoughts
scott
I did leave samples with the company when I was in Las Vegas but should they need others I'll contact you.
i am not too far away (Atlanta) and might be able to help you with samples for some parts to recreate. trim + lighting is a good thing
front turn signals - lenses are readily available ... 2 styles (US market - gigantic) and euro. the frames - not so much.
front grilles - the plastic side grilles with anodized aluminum trim
complete rear tail light assemblies - the frame with lenses already put together
the panel in between the tail lights - 2 styles, one chrome covered brass, the other is anodized aluminum
license plate lights - 2 styles, the ones that go in the bumper (bmw makes them but they don't look like the originals) ... and the later style that were also used by the 320i and other late 70's / early 80's BMW.
some of the badging is NLA - such as 2800 cs
if molded plastic is an option - things like the defroster vents would be great
BTW - your license plate lamp looks like its the right thing for the early e9 lamp - ours is just chrome instead of black ... but the lens looks correct.
tell us about your window motors - they look very similar to the later e9 / e28 motors.
just a few thoughts
scott
BitterSC
Member
I know, that is the bulk of the cost.
He has ramped up to 5 sets a month, haha
I sell them for $360.00 for right and left
Part of my initial challenge was finding someone who could make them without charging me a mold set-up fee which was often in the thousands of dollars.
He has ramped up to 5 sets a month, haha
I sell them for $360.00 for right and left
Part of my initial challenge was finding someone who could make them without charging me a mold set-up fee which was often in the thousands of dollars.
Great idea in particular the driver side rear tail light pits due to the exhaust mine is in poor condition.
$600 is half the price for a pair of tail lights compared to when I looked into it 4 years ago (lenses and frames). As you mentioned, the hard part is the initial tooling costs. I couldn’t get any interest. At the price you mentioned I think you’ll get much better interest.
And I’ll be the first to buy a set at $600/or.
Five years ago one tail light was $1300 from BMW before they went NLA.
I would certainly look at grabbing a pair of new rear lights in the frame.
The other thing to consider here apart from the number of coupes still around is the actual demand for the part.
For example, seems to me one of the most common 'accident's our coupes have is to be rear ended when out for a drive.
Guess what breaks and can't be replaced when that happens?
Only last week I saw an Australian based fully restored CSi that got a touch in the back and now they need new lights.
Also factor in originals are also now very brittle and they tend to turn opaque so there could be a great little market here.
The other thing to consider here apart from the number of coupes still around is the actual demand for the part.
For example, seems to me one of the most common 'accident's our coupes have is to be rear ended when out for a drive.
Guess what breaks and can't be replaced when that happens?
Only last week I saw an Australian based fully restored CSi that got a touch in the back and now they need new lights.
Also factor in originals are also now very brittle and they tend to turn opaque so there could be a great little market here.
BitterSC
Member
Hi!
I am back from Germany - sorry, Keshav, the trip was a bit insane and we didn't have the time to meet anybody except family.
Gerhard Reiser handed me on to a BMW Club person who told me there will be an effort by BMW to reproduce these lights themselves. This means I am out as I am certainly not going to go up against BMW. I might consider to do less ambitious repros if there is enough interest.
For now I'll keep reproducing parts for the Bitter/Opel Senator/Opel Monza. Currently I am having coolant expansion tanks and fuel gauge sending units made.
Another option might be lights for the first generation RX-7. My son just got one and lights are as rare as those for the E9.
Thanks for all the help and support from everybody. This certainly is a great forum for a great car.
Bye,
Achim
I am back from Germany - sorry, Keshav, the trip was a bit insane and we didn't have the time to meet anybody except family.
Gerhard Reiser handed me on to a BMW Club person who told me there will be an effort by BMW to reproduce these lights themselves. This means I am out as I am certainly not going to go up against BMW. I might consider to do less ambitious repros if there is enough interest.
For now I'll keep reproducing parts for the Bitter/Opel Senator/Opel Monza. Currently I am having coolant expansion tanks and fuel gauge sending units made.
Another option might be lights for the first generation RX-7. My son just got one and lights are as rare as those for the E9.
Thanks for all the help and support from everybody. This certainly is a great forum for a great car.
Bye,
Achim