It's time to face the facts....

vince said:
The worst car we've ever owned was a 2013 X5, it was beautiful but it was at the dealer more than in our garage. The only new BMW I like is the M2, now they've ruined the styling on that car too. Our next new car will probably be a Audi wagon.
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interesting, my 2013 650iX was absolutely loaded (certified pre-owned) and was in the shop a lot, thankfully most was under the extended warranty. I sold it when we bought the Q7 which we leased and decided to buy. Overall the Audi's have been reliable, but I don't think any German car will match the Japanese for reliability.

The last Japanese car I had was an Infinity Q45...hated it. I was coming off the Audi S8 and the infinity was a soul-less driving appliance and unfortunately it seems BMW is headed that direction too.
 
I like the M2 quite a bit. Saw one today. Good size and stance. I can't see buying a fancy car any more. . Totally satisfied with my BRZ/Forester Xt combo for daily driving.
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
...we aren't BMW's target market anymore.

www.roadandtrack.com

It's Time to Face the Facts: We Aren't BMW's Target Market Anymore

The most compelling examples of “old BMW” are paywalled, behind a greatest hits-esque limited production scope and limited to halo models like the M4 CSL.
www.roadandtrack.com www.roadandtrack.com


I really thought BMW would be the one to leapfrog Tesla with an EV driver's car. Obviously not in their game plan.
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so true, but as kevin wisely said it did not happened yesterday with the i-ones, it was more progressive, …if once a man indulges himself in lady Gaga…he ends up buying ….a Jaguar…
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
see the end when BMW started making SUVs
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I've been buying BMW's for 40 years, so I'm nothing if loyal to the brand.
So, let's be fair to BMW. They run a business of making cars to make money. And, they have a desire to grow, and gain market share.

When the market changes BMW must change if they want to remain relevant.
Ideally, they will do so while still being innovative and therefore be able to drive the market in directions which suit their vision of the future.
  • They did this successfully when they bought and brought Mini back to life.
  • They revived the mid-priced sporty convertible market with the Z3
  • They proved SUV's could still be fun to drive with the E53 when everyone else assumed SUV's had to handle like trucks.
  • They did miss the boat on EV's (everyone suffered from the well known weaknesses of well established, successful companies)
  • BMW has put Mercedes and every other luxury car maker into their review mirror.
If BMW has left us behind, I'll argue it's because our wants have become less representative of the general consumer group for premium European vehicles.
I'm lucky to sometimes get a peek at the new stuff under development at the FIZ, and I think they continue to do interesting and desirable vehicles.

My DD is a BMW (X5d, doubles as my tow vehicle), and I don't see any reason to stray from the brand for my next DD either.

John
 
"I love the M2. Would I buy one? Nah."

Second that. The last time I tried out a new M-car, it was boring to drive responsibly on public roads. It was simply too good for anything not done on a race track or closed course hill-climb/rally.

And, I don't need a sports car to enhance my image (un-enhanceable at my age and weight).
Plus, like most of you, I work on old cars as a hobby, and need the ability to transport other large heavy objects thru snow, rain, heat and gloom of night.
Sometimes I wish BMW made a full size minivan that could tow 5000lbs cross country (should I mention that I find dually Sprinter vans sexy)

Given the choice between a new M3 and a X5, the choice is easy.
 
JFENG said:
I've been buying BMW's for 40 years, so I'm nothing if loyal to the brand.
So, let's be fair to BMW. They run a business of making cars to make money. And, they have a desire to grow, and gain market share.

When the market changes BMW must change if they want to remain relevant.
Ideally, they will do so while still being innovative and therefore be able to drive the market in directions which suit their vision of the future.
  • They did this successfully when they bought and brought Mini back to life.
  • They revived the mid-priced sporty convertible market with the Z3
  • They proved SUV's could still be fun to drive with the E53 when everyone else assumed SUV's had to handle like trucks.
  • They did miss the boat on EV's (everyone suffered from the well known weaknesses of well established, successful companies)
  • BMW has put Mercedes and every other luxury car maker into their review mirror.
If BMW has left us behind, I'll argue it's because our wants have become less representative of the general consumer group for premium European vehicles.
I'm lucky to sometimes get a peek at the new stuff under development at the FIZ, and I think they continue to do interesting and desirable vehicles.

My DD is a BMW (X5d, doubles as my tow vehicle), and I don't see any reason to stray from the brand for my next DD either.

John
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John,
I agree with all of that. The number one priority for a car company is to build and sell vehicles that the market wants. They wouldn't continue to exist if they didn't do that. The article, however, was about BMW no longer producing the cars that many of us knew as BMWs and loved them for being what they are. It doesn't say that BMW is doing the wrong thing by building cars that the market is asking for and by not building cars that I like. Part of that, of course, is that the older we get....the less we like change ;) . It's like when Ford turned the 2 seater T-Bird into a 4 seater in 1958 and then into a 4 door sedan in 1967. The soul of the car was lost but it was exactly the right thing to do for Ford. No car guys celebrated the changes, but Ford sold more T-Birds.

I'm actually wondering why BMW does not produce a pickup...the best selling vehicle type in the US. I think a BMW sport pickup would be a winner from a sales standpoint (ala Rivian?)

BTW, Tesla is outselling BMW in the US. Not outselling just electric BMWs, but ALL BMWs. An electric BMW may not be us ol' skool car guys idea of a BMW, but it's clearly what the market wants...just as it wanted BMW SUVs.
 
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JFENG said:
If BMW has left us behind, I'll argue it's because our wants have become less representative of the general consumer group for premium European vehicles.
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I think people who enjoy the process of driving - who pay attention to the process and monitor the state of repair of their vehicles and adjust themselves to driving conditions - are still a big enough demographic that there should be cars targetted to us.

But it is possible that I'm wrong about this, and that the market is not big enough for car manufacturers to chase.
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
Tesla is outselling BMW in the US
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Yes, and regardless of what we all think of them (and Elon), there's no denying he came in and beat everyone.
I'm not saying BMW made some bad decisions, just that it's understandable that no successful car company could do what Tesla has done.

Big, established companies have difficulty making major paradigm shifts, and honestly how many have succeeded in re-inventing themselves at a time when their traditional approach is super successful?
 
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