Jabberjaw on ebay now

Fjord3.0

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I have seen jabber jaw in person and can say that it is a first class build. Anyone would be proud to own her and take her to car shows. Good luck with the sale.:-D
 

deQuincey

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not for me, good luck

it is a question of taste and elegance
it is a beautiful car, no doubt it will be probably more "modern" so "less problems", but definitively not for me (and original spirit chaser)
it will probably have it´s public, sure, public with big pockets full of money to pay
good luck ! wish your dreams come true, and get the "cavallino" in your garage ! :-D
 

azcarguy

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I have seen jabber jaw in person and can say that it is a first class build. Anyone would be proud to own her and take her to car shows. Good luck with the sale.:-D

Thank you for the kind words and as I mentioned earlier, it is probably the best car I've owned to date (and that's saying a bit of something). It also garners more attention and praise than any other I've had.

it is a question of taste and elegance
it is a beautiful car, no doubt it will be probably more "modern" so "less problems", but definitively not for me (and original spirit chaser)
it will probably have it´s public, sure, public with big pockets full of money to pay
good luck ! wish your dreams come true, and get the "cavallino" in your garage ! :-D

You're correct, the Jaw is an acquired taste and will require an owner looking for exactly that, a car having some modern underpinnings and yet still comfortable in its classic skin. I can appreciate both sides of the fence and have great respect and admiration for those bringing these coupes back to life in original trim. And thank for your positive thoughts as I've given up this great coupe and 8 of her siblings in order to make a run at the "big prize".
 

execmalibu

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AZcarguy... What was the final price the car sold for?

The ebay auction ended with car no longer available for sale... Being a very famous and well documented E9 I would love to know how much the best of the best will bring. If an E9 is done right is there a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? Not asking for the exact number but a rough number like High $50s, Mid $60s over $80K etc. would be appreciated by all of the E9 owners.



Thanks
 
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Nicad

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Jeff, seems to me the car you had for sale last month plus 35K would build a Jabberjaw.
 

execmalibu

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Nicad It would cost a lot more to totally restore an E9 to that level!

Nicad,

I am not sure about in Canada but the restoration costs in So Cal would be a lot more then $35K to build an E9 to the level of that car. Jabberjaw was over restored top and bottom and that costs huge money to do.

The 1973 CS that I was forced to sell was a perfect candidate for a full restoration because it was absolutely rust free and very straight plus it was a Stick and Sunroof car in a great color combo!

That being said I determined that spending huge amounts of both time and money to totally restore the car was not me. 20 years ago I had access to the shops that could do the work but they are ALL gone (either dead or retired):(

I do have extensive experience restoring vintage cars but that car needed EVERYTHING! Engine, Trans, Brakes, Suspension, Chrome, Interior, Stripping to bare metal etc etc etc... If the car was a good running car that just needed cosmetics I might have tackled the project but again there was absolutely nothing on the car that did not need to be restored or replaced.

Bill in Seattle has the time and is willing to attack the enormous project and I am sure once he finishes the car it will be amazing. But it was my understanding that he was going to build a very nice driver and he expects to spend around $35k using his connections including doing some of the work himself.
 
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Nicad

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Exec, I'd bet there are some very skilled artisans in Mexico that would do a nice job. I am restoring a Lancaster Bomber. Been at it for 6 years along with a team of 15 or so . It will take another 10 to 15 before we are done. The small details might take longer. Have spent a couple of months making one rubber part one night a week. (I talk a lot I guess).
 

azcarguy

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The ebay auction ended with car no longer available for sale... Being a very famous and well documented E9 I would love to know how much the best of the best will bring. If an E9 is done right is there a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? Not asking for the exact number but a rough number like High $50s, Mid $60s over $80K etc. would be appreciated by all of the E9 owners.
Thanks

I will let the new owner answer questions about price and value if they chose to but will say that the car sold for more than the Sayther CSL. It was a great experience selling the Jaw as I was able to interact with very knowledgeable buyers asking intelligent questions that clearly have a passion for these cars.

As to the pot of gold, well unless you value things using Obamanomics there is no gold to be had. The car sold for about 2/3 of the cost of resto which is about the norm with anything short of the upper echelon cars (Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini (Miura) and so on).

Nicad,

I am not sure about in Canada but the restoration costs in So Cal would be a lot more then $35K to build an E9 to the level of that car. Jabberjaw was over restored top and bottom and that costs huge money to do.

Correct, 35K might get you half of the bodywork!
 

Nicad

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I'd like to have seen your car in the Flesh. It certainly is about 100% perfect on my monitor. Good luck finding your new dream.
 

d-ace

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A question?

I am truly glad to see these cars are coming into their own in price now it is about time especially with the small amount made and the very few that are in great shape still.
The cosmetics were obviously done in detail as show on this car. Although my BMW’s have always been setup for a driving cars and full restoration for a strong structure is paramount along with a strong setup suspension for high speed turning.
Now since your car has sold "azcarguy" and as all do on these forums just to ask a few legitimate questions that were not fully answered when ask on this thread?
Plus since you stated “The car sold for about 2/3 of the cost of resto which is about the norm with anything short of the upper echelon cars (Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini (Miura) and so on).” And stated “Then in the early 1990’s the car is said to have received a complete restoration rumored to have cost in the neighborhood of $100,000.00, which is a staggering sum of money in 1990 dollars!”

As asked just a few questions by “bfeng”
For a car that's undergone not one but two $100k restorations, why hasn't the undercarriage been stripped and refinished? I've pretty much never heard
of anyone spending that much on a restoration without going to the "nut and bolt"
level including a show quality underside”
THEN
“But, for a car built for historic rallies I think attention to the undercarriage should be almost as important as that incredible paint job on the top.”

Comment
From what I see this is true. The photo below shows the OEM BMW white synthetic rubber coating on the bottom after the $100,000.00, restoration is still there?
I have removed this coating on many coupes before and it is a longtime hard job in its own.
Also it looks like the car impacted hard bottoming-out at one time to crush the exhaust and scrap the white synthetic rubber coating on the sub-frame and more.
As said attention to details undercarriage, wheel-wells is just as important for any show quality restoration.
One question I have is was the white synthetic rubber coating stripped, rust remover and recoated before your paint job?


Question
“I would have taken the front fenders OFF the car BEFORE having the inner/outer fenders fixed. Without taking the panels off the car, you'll never be able to clean up both sides of the sheet metal to original appearance. It also means you can't totally strip the underside of the fenders and fully rust-proof them”

Comment
True, although more important is the rocker panels to see the sup-frame. Any indication of rust in the seems will show once the rocker panels are removed where most the rust came from and is mostly completely gone or deterioration bad>> the sub-frame. In other words the car while turning is staying together by the doors closed and thin floor metal.

Also spot welded together seams cannot be deal with without removable of fenders and rocker panels
Plus without removable of the white synthetic rubber coating you cannot see where the rust has grown. And the bottom of this car in the photos shows many rust spots coming through the OEM synthetic rubber.

I don’t have the intentions of trying to sound disrespectful about these questions. It is just after the many ridicules questions by some questionable people I have been asked about my restoration job I done on my CSI I thought it was time for me to ask a few solid questions on one of these high priced coupes.
 

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sfdon

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Hey there-Do you have a restored car for sale?

Could we see pics please?


Thanks!

Don
 

execmalibu

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How much did the Sayther CSL bring? The bottom of the car looks great 100% original!

AZcarguy,

How much did the Sayther CSL sell for?


Plus to me the bottom of the car looks great and still has the original factory undercoating. I dont see any rust... There is something that scraped the undercoating like a lift but no rust.

Why would you take the original undercoating off? The Wurth replacement undercoating is very close but you only get original one time...

If it ain't broke dont fix it!

So what if the muffler is scraped a speed bump will do that if the car is lowered.
 
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d-ace

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sfdon
“Hey there-Do you have a restored car for sale?
Could we see pics please?
Thanks!
Don”

Hi Don, yes I do and the real kind restoration. New fenders, New nose clip, New rocker Panel and sub-frame. Anything that showed even small rust holes was replaced with OEM BMW body parts. You cannot see how bad the rust is in these cars until after tank dropping in muriatic and phosphate acid and the only way for seems and closed compartments to be rust free or someone is just telling you a story.

Michael Douglas the actor watch me start building this car years ago in Montecito California for myself once he saw how I did it and ready for paint he offered $40,000 for it. Although it was not enough in those days, the real kind couples were worth big bucks then.
Email address and phone number at the bottom of the page >> http://shred-master.com/new_page_2.htm
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Quote
“execmalibu
Plus to me the bottom of the car looks great and still has the original factory
undercoating. I dont see any rust... There is something that scraped the undercoating like a lift but no rust.
Why would you take the original undercoating off? The Wurth replacement undercoating
is very close but you only get original one time...
If it ain't broke dont fix it!
So what if the muffler is scraped a speed bump will do that if the car is lowered.”

Execmalibu, I have restored many cars in my time and not just BMW’s. If you are going to do it there is only one way to do it “THE RIGHT WAY” or don’t do it at all, no short cuts….. Or it is just a half-ass job a patch job like the roads we drive on now days and a few years down the road it will come back to haunt you and worst….

These couples, just ask anyone that has really restored them they will tell you BMW did it wrong in the first place. You don’t paint body parts put them in place spot weld them together and not go back in and reseal or just paint the burnt spots from the spot welder. Most of these couples were doomed after the first ride in the rain 40-years ago especially the Euro’s with salt on the road and the rocker panels, fenders, wheel-wells and low doors show it clearly..

I have restored a 2002tii, 320i, and two Euro 635’s plus one CS couple and this CSI before and cut up three CS couples that were to far gone from rust. The 2002, 320i and 635CSI’s cars did not have the rust problem as the 1971 – 1975 CS couples have. Because BMW did the short cut story on one of the best cars they ever made now couple enthusiast that have a passion for them are paying the price for it with big $$$ to save them.

Also I have spent weeks part-time torching and scraping that damn thick rubber before especially in the drive tunnel. I always remove that rubber undercoating and anyone that has before will tell you any small spots of rust on the outside once removed can be 12” in diameter rusted under the rubber. The floor pans on these car rust like a bitch too. I have always remove that rubber undercoating for tank dropped my cars until not allow anymore for restoration it is the only way to be 100% sure NO RUST…

AND WITH THE ATTITUDE >>>
If it ain't broke dont fix it!
Why would you take the original undercoating off?
So what if the muffler is scraped a speed bump will do that if the car is lowered.

Your not working on my cars “Execmalibu” and this is why these cars are in the desperate shape they are now days due to lack of body maintenance over the years. Mostly only mechanical and then just drove to death..

Quote
Execmalibu,
“Plus to me the bottom of the car looks great and still has the original factory
undercoating. I dont see any rust..”.

Some people don’t see the problem even when it is right in front of you. So just for you Execmalibu, check the attachment below and blow it up this is what I always look for and have been paid $100 per hour to check them out and always start with the bottom. Last year for a nice guy and astronaut in Houston save him big $$$ too with small holes right through the rocker panels.

This CS is not bad for a driving car but absolutely not for a $100,000 restoration or show car quality. .
Tie-rods, rims, exhaust system and more look well used and just dirty to me IMO.

Bob
 

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azcarguy

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AZcarguy,

How much did the Sayther CSL sell for?


Plus to me the bottom of the car looks great and still has the original factory undercoating. I dont see any rust... There is something that scraped the undercoating like a lift but no rust.

Why would you take the original undercoating off? The Wurth replacement undercoating is very close but you only get original one time...

If it ain't broke dont fix it!

So what if the muffler is scraped a speed bump will do that if the car is lowered.

Sayther link to auction here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0558932523&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

d-ace
Perhaps you could simply put together a list of actual questions. With all of odd quotes and gibberish I don't really understand what you're asking???? If your attempting to elevate the sale price of your own vehicle you might be better served listing it in the classified section of the forum and listing all of the various way's that it's superior to the other cars that have sold recently. From you site I can't make out single image of an actual complete car. Am I missing something?
 

execmalibu

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d-ace Having Owned OVER 500 Vintage Cars Some Might Say that I have Experience.

d-ace/Bob,

No offense but having owned, raced and restored well over 500 vintage cars during the past 35+ years which include but are not limited to:

1. 427 Cobra
2. Porsche RS550 Spyder
3. Ferrari 365 GTB4 Daytona
4. Porsche Carrera GT Speedster
5. Ferrari 330GTS
6. Mercedes 3.5 Convertible
7. 1966 E-Type Jag
8. Porsche Twin Grille Roadster
9. Ferrari 246GTS Dino Spyder
10 Jag V-12 E-Type
11. (400-500) 356 and 911 Porsches,

Some people might say that I have just a little bit of experience with Vintage Cars.

Although I am new to BMW E9s I am a very fast learner and I tend to do enormous amounts of research to become well educated about my newest toys.

I come from a totally different point of view about what is the "BEST". There are different schools of thought and that is why at the Worlds Best "The Pebble Beach Concours" there will often be a few totally beat to death looking cars parked next to cars with $250,000 restorations.

The cars that are totally beat might have peeling paint, cracking leather, dead chrome but these rare cars are ALL ORIGINAL and unrestored! All of the money in the world can not get you ORIGINAL a second time. This is also true with Vintage Watches, Guitars, Guns and Art! An original unrestored watch Dial with a few flaws (Patina) is worth many times that of a perfectly restored dial.

I come from that group and much prefer Original as opposed to the worlds best restoration. That is why in the 30 years that I have owned my 246GTS I have never repainted or reupholstered the car. It is ALL Original Paint and interior as is my 1973 911E and my 1972 Corniche Convertible. They all have thin paint with a few cracks and other flaws but that is called Patina.

Some of us lunatics insist on even the tiny screws be original. If the original screws were a 4mm and all that are available today are 4.5mm that is a problem for some of use sickos...

Again no offense but I would never want to buy a car like yours that has been in a million pieces and had numerous major body panel replaced (Fenders, Nose, Rockers etc). On your car the black shock towers scream super rusty car to me and most E9 guys! Not rust free. There are lots of cars like yours that get taken to far apart and many never get put back together because of the time and money. Or they get put together wrong or are over restored with black undercoating or shinny paint in places that were never painted originally.

Also not all visible rust is terminal. There are many cars that I have owned that are basically rust free cars with a few minor bubbles or minor rust in areas that trap moisture. I call this Calif rust. With Porsche 356 and 911s the very best dry AZ or Calif cars can get rust in the battery box or front suspension pan this is from the battery and is normal... I would never replace the entire pan in a Porsche because just the battery box was rusty. On areas like the bottoms of fenders with a few small rust bubbles a good metal man can repair and metal finish those areas and the car will still have the original fenders!

On an E9 if you put the car on a rack and start poking aggressively with a sharp ice pick in the suspect areas you should have no problem finding hidden rust. No penetration means no serious rust. Even assuming that you find one small spot that the ice pick penetrated but no others I would never strip the all of the factory undercoating and replace the entire pan. Metal finish in a small patch and match the factory undercoating to keep the car original as possible.

No vintage car was PERFECT when they were new 40 years ago and trying to make them perfect today is an exercise in futility.

Again a little Patina is not always a bad thing.... And... If it ain't broke don't fix it!
 
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JFENG

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original or restored...

Original is great.. but once you repaint the top side & it ain't original. At that point you should do a proper job which means removing all that OEM undercoating . That atuff promots rust if any moisture gets behind it. A nice single stage urethane paint job & keeping it clean will keep rust at bay better. It the car will be rallied, there are good petroleum based non-hardening coatings that do not chip & won't hold moisture against the underlying metal.
 

61porsche

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Greetings from Texas

Slaythers or JabberJaw..... their both awesome in many ways and in some aspects lacking in minor details or what I prefer to think.... the new owner's care and what ever that brings for them.

I'm not an original owner... I deeply apprecriate those that took care of mine before me. So, a little reverence is in order here. Give something back.

Like many others here, we've seen prices rise,fall, and sometimes fall short. I'm just glad to be an owner (caretaker) and wish the very best of luck to the new owners. May they be as happy about their purchase as we are.

I for one hope they stay in touch so we perhaps can learn or relearn something.

Oh, Alvin and Terry... don't forget to stop by and say hello once and a while.:)
 

d-ace

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azcarguy

Perhaps you could simply put together a list of actual questions. With all of odd
quotes and gibberish I don't really understand what you're asking???? If your
attempting to elevate the sale price of your own vehicle you might be better served
listing it in the classified section of the forum and listing all of the various
way's that it's superior to the other cars that have sold recently. From you site I
can't make out single image of an actual complete car. Am I missing something?

Boy and I thought I got in late last night and was unwinding on the compute but 01:14 AM that’s 02:14AM in Arizona.

Sorry “azcarguy” if the questions were confusing but here were the basic ones I was curious about and was only quoting and asking what others have posted on here?

Question By “bfeng”
For a car that's undergone not one but two $100k restorations, why hasn't the undercarriage been stripped and refinished? I've pretty much never heard
of anyone spending that much on a restoration without going to the "nut and bolt"
level including a show quality underside”
One question I have is was the white synthetic rubber coating stripped, rust remover and recoated before your paint job?

Question
“I would have taken the front fenders OFF the car BEFORE having the inner/outer fenders fixed. Without taking the panels off the car, you'll never be able to clean up both sides of the sheet metal to original appearance. It also means you can't totally strip the underside of the fenders and fully rust-proof them”

I personally think anyone one claiming $100,000 if not two times $200,000 restoration on a CS coupe many would question that especially how the bottom looks. I could see $200,000 spent on restoration on a car like Carroll Shelby's Cobra that sold for $5.5 million including gold plating parts of the car.

Also I thought this was posted in the “BMW E9 Coupe Discussion Forum > Classifieds > Cars” as listed above.
If my website site is also confusing to you which is understandable maybe for this forum I will contact Dang / Dan the Administrator of this site now he offered to put a page on to advertise this car awhile ago I hope the offer is still there.
__________
“execmalibu”

It seems that you have chosen to voice your point of view on the matter so I try to give you mind only because. As you say it seems you have restored many cars and if so good for you. It is very rare to find hands-on restorers on these forums that really do the work.

Although you have stated “I come from that group and much prefer Original as opposed to the worlds best restoration.” As said, your opinion is more about paint and upholstery “Cosmetics” that is not restoration too me but just finish body work. WELL NOW WECLOME TO THE RUSTING WORLD OF THE E9.” Many of these coupes once I have open them up I have shoveled hundreds of pounds of rust off the floor.

I recently had a man call me from Europe that told me he had been looking all over Europe for a rust free CSI for five years and everything he had seen was a rust buck and no matter the price, CSL’s too. To give you IMO obviously this is why many have chosen to modify the American CS over Euro cars, a dryer climate. Although as like you, I do not feel it is right to change the design of the cars and keep it as a classic, same motor numbers and no body modifications.
As I was taught starting in night school for bodywork in 1963 for two years after high school once a car was stripped then tank dropped only then can you can see the rust cancer. Body parts are ONLY removed one part at a time then the OEM (exsample) fender is clamped in place and on these BMW couples spot welded in place, leding work as BMW did fender to nose-clip.

I started body work and restoration work in 1963 doing Morris Minors we want them for travel everyday to go surfing here in California and the little Station Wagons were cool and got 46 miles to a gallon of gas. Now day they are worth more than many of these e9's.
Then for decades I restored the “El Camino” best truck I ever had still have a 1982 for pulling my Sea Ray boat.

And not to keep just going on although this statement is not true and very questionable and not how restoration is done.

“execmalibu”
Again no offense but I would never want to buy a car like yours that has been in a million pieces and had numerous major body panel replaced (Fenders, Nose, Rockers etc). On your car the black shock towers scream super rusty car to me and most E9 guys! Not rust free. There are lots of cars like yours that get taken to far apart and many never get put back together because of the time and money. Or they get put together wrong or are over restored with black undercoating or shinny paint in places that were never painted.

First, as I said as taught “Body parts are ONLY removed one part at a time then the OEM say fender is clamped in place and on these BMW couples spot welded in place, leding as BMW did fender to nose-clip.”
The man that was the overseer on my CSI was Certified in Germany for a mechanic and body work for BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, he had one of the best shops is Santa Barbara at the time. He was the one that loan me the steel frame the CSI was supported on while restoration was done. By the time I was done he was asking me questions.

About the “On your car the black shock towers scream super rusty car to me and most E9 guys! Not rust free”

Wrong again, the car was tank dropped for 7 days in muriatic and phosphate acid that does not stop until all rust is gone including seems and closed compartments, following 3 days in a neutralizing tank. Then again one at a time parts like the fender was removed and the inter wheel-well replaced with NEW OEM BMW body parts ONLY, SO WHAT RUST ON THE SHOCK TOWERS THEY ARE NEW?
Next all sections including the undercarriage was then sprayed with gallons of $30a quart synthetic latex. All seems coc*ed, then primer coated with a double fish oil base paint. Following undercoated everywhere but the outside body ready for paint which is primer coated with a double fish oil base paint. As you should know “execmalibu” these are some of the highest rust preventives made to date.

Anyhow, these couples are rusting and have been for decades not to do your best to preserve the e9 couples that are still left is very questionable to me and I chose to fix it before you cannot fix it anymore and it is just a rust bucket of junk.

Also one last point:
We all have to give “azcarguy” credit on his car sale he made his point. The main thing he has proven is that the restored modified CS coupe is very desirable now day over the classic original style coupe in a big way by getting paid more than the CSL that sold on ebay recently.


My restored CSI >>> http://shred-master.com/new_page_2.htm
Bob
 
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azcarguy

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d-ace

The prices of restoration(s) quoted in my ad are directly from the horses mouth so to speak in that there are folks on this board and in the vendors side of the E9 world that have seen the car in its glory and are aware pf what was spent to get it there, and then witnessed its descent into a state of disrepair prior to being revitalized by Alvin. Those same people were kind enough to pass the relevant information on to Alvin when he purchased the car so he had an idea of what he was dealing with. I actually provided the links to threads about that process in my ad or you can find them by searching for threads containing "JabberJaw" here on the forum. The prices are also found in the issue of Performance BMW that features JabberJaw as its "centerfold" article. It is also not terribly difficult to speak to the folks at UACC, SfDon, etc. if you want to know more. Some of them have participated in this thread.

And after reading the rest of your most recent post I must bow out of the conversation as I am outside my area of basic knowledge as it relates to these great cars. I chose to purchase a car that I would have built in a similar fashion for myself that I could enjoy and the only reason I would let it go is so that I might have the opportunity to purchase the one car, that as an enthusiast, I want more than any other. That's why they call them dreams.......
 
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