Korman Triple Carb Conversion

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It is amazing how much quicker the disassembly is vs assembly!

Installation is in progress for manifolds, carbs, linkage, fuel pressure regulator & thermostat relocation block. It is the latter that is clearly a concern. The thermostat housing now interferes with the fan (pics below). Has anyone else solved for this?

Is a different (earlier/later) housing required or is a different fan or spacer needed?

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Drew Gregg

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Please talk to @sfdon about your concerns. He sent all the right parts to me for a successful cooling system.
 

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sfdon

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Maybe you could use one of our special BMW thin fans.
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Well, it has been a busy week here.

After determining that the thermostat housing relocation block would not work for me without a different fan set-up, I made some adjustments.

I removed the thermostat relocation block and also removed the phenolic carburetor spacers and the assembly (thermostat housing & carbs) fits with just enough room to install the hose and clamp.

The electronic fuel pump is installed in the trunk, with a relay that is actuated by a Revolution Electronics controller @Stevehose mentioned this product in his DIY. The pump works, but is not shutting off after three seconds as advertised (optional diode installed), so I reached out to Revolution for their thoughts.

With the pump working I was able to find some fuel leaks, one of which was raw fuel pouring out of the venturis on the carb closest to the firewall. I removed the top and re-adjusted the float level. It was sufficiently different than expected so I decided to check and adjust all three floats. This went fine, but on the final carb the float post broke while removing the float pin. Fortunately, I had a spare top that was un-damaged so I threw it in the vapor hone and transferred the needle valve and float assembly it was soon adjusted.

I checked the venturi leak by filling up the carb bowl with the top still removed and found that the leak resumed. Since the leak was dripping from the venturi itself, I pulled the two pump valve assemblies and cleaned them out then used a punch on the top of the sealing balls to re-seat them. It worked; the last leak stopped!

With all the elements in place (fuel pump works but the controller is not functioning properly yet) I decided to see if it would fire and it did! Other cars in the driveway, so I ran it briefly and will get it out of the garage to spend some time tuning it later this week.

My ever-patient wife came down to see what was going on as the raw fuel smell of leaking carburetors had been replaced with the pungent odor of un-burned hydrocarbons (exhaust) and I explained that what she was smelling was success!

More to come.
 

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Do you have the shut off switch wired properly?
i wired through a relay, so different from the included installation guide. I exchanged emails with them and had a new recommendation on where to install the diode. It is in place, but that is the likely culprit. Plan is to re-wire the diode tomorrow.
 

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i wired through a relay, so different from the included installation guide. I exchanged emails with them and had a new recommendation on where to install the diode. It is in place, but that is the likely culprit. Plan is to re-wire the diode tomorrow.
Turned out the diode was bad, I replaced it today and the controller is working as it should.

Engine now running, but not smooth yet. Working to balance the carbs.
 

TMC1973 CS

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+1 to Ohmess summary.

Triples are a 'journey'.

Having done my triple (45s) conversion personally then blowing my motor last Spring on track, I am now enjoying a complete 'hot rod' motor rebuild by a known NorCal builder. We went in trying to fix a horribly expensive sounding noise in the head, left a year later with an entire, new, fresh 'build'.

Cue evil villain laugh...

If considering triples, look at your 'entire' motor, your purpose and long term goals, then plan on many changes ($$). I went with the Korman T-stat housing too. Also, my builder informed me that it's just alot easier now to get parts for a 3.5L..... so now I have a 3.5L.

If you're not interested in such a major undertaking, I had and think the synchronized 38/38s (considering putting some on my E3) and a Petronix are great for a simpler bolt-on mods. I thought it had a nice throttle response. An electric fuel pump is a nice thing too. Ran that set-up for @ 20/yrs-100k miles.

I have heard great things about the EFI/Megasquirt set-ups, and I look forward to comparing a buddy's recent FI build to my triple build. For me, I followed my childhood dream of opening the hood to see a set of triples. I still have another 750 miles of break-in period before I get on the dyno to 'see what I got', but I can tell you that up to 5K rpms (builder told me to stay under 5k during break in, but going 7k is not a problem), that the sound and pull is intoxicating....got an angry tiger under the hood now.

In conclusion: if unfamiliar with triples, consult/find a known builder and/or tuner that can guide you. Once the project is built, plan on a dyno session w/ a weber guru for the optimal results. If no dyno available, install an AFR gauge to assist with your tuning. Each motor will be different and require different jetting etc to be its 'happiest'.

HTH, enjoy your project and the journey it takes you on. There is light at the end of the tunnel and the results can be intoxicating.
Gentleman. I appreciate all the input, that is a lot of information to digest. My plan was to buy the entire Triple Carb. set-up from Korman. It sounds like it is pretty much plug and play. My goal is to make my car a bit more responsive/quicker, so any alternative suggestions would be appreciated. Will only be driving the car 5 months out of the year.
 

TMC1973 CS

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i had the Korman double Weber side drafts on a 2002 - it was a great package. here's a question, is your engine stock? or improved? i would recommend putting a cam in a stock engine to make more use of sidedrafts. love the triples on the coupe - but another option is the downdraft 38/38 - i believe our friend @Stan has this setup.
My engine is stock Euro.
 

TMC1973 CS

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I like the whole triple Weber thing, but it’s not for everyone.

I have the Korman intake manifold and tstat housing in my car. Korman no longer sells the manifold (I talked to Ray Korman about this at Legends/Hilton Head last fall; his supplier lost the molds and drawings in a fire), but they are willing to make up a tstat housing. There is no one stop shop for all the parts necessary to do a triple Weber setup.

Benefits:

Tuning is very flexible.

- You can tune for maximum horsepower (which is what the race versions of our car did) or for driveability or for a range of possibilities in between.
- You can tune for your particular circumstances (type of fuel, elevation above sea level, etc.)
- You have a throat for each cylinder, which means you can refine your tune to take into account variability from cylinder to cylinder.
- You can tune to take into account fuel economy, or not.
- You can tune to take into account emissions, or not.

They sound fabulous, and their sound is unique.

They look great.

They are purely a vintage car thing; there is no modern analog.

Disadvantages:

While they can complement other engine improvements, on a stock engine, they offer only modest improvements in performance and then only if well tuned.

There is not an abundance of people who can work on them for you. And because triple Webers were not a factory option on our cars, there are no reference materials on how to tune them. If you don’t learn to tune them yourself, you need to find an old school mechanic (and one who is willing to work on your setup, which some will not be).

Because they are so flexible, they can also be complicated to tune. This fact also complicates hiring someone to work on them because they may have different ideas on how to tune them (e.g., they may place more emphasis on fuel economy, whereas you might prefer more top end horsepower).

They are expensive to acquire.

In our cars, there are a number of changes that must be made to make the carbs fit:

- the mechanical fuel pump needs to be changed for an electric fuel pump
- the carbs require a unique intake manifold
- the carbs require a unique linkage from the bell crank up and across the carbs
- the front carb will be really really close to your tstat housing; best to either obtain a modified housing (which Korman sells) or get an offset block like the one Markos made a few years back
- air cleaner options are limited, and many don’t look good in our cars. In addition, the brake booster interferes with most air cleaners on the middle carb. Changing to a tii booster is recommended because of this.

They do not self adjust. If you go into the mountains, for example, your car will run rich in the thinner air, and you need to change jetting to address this.

The accelerator pump circuits dump fuel into the carbs whenever you step on the gas. While this is somewhat adjustable, it wastes fuel and can increase emissions. This is the primary area where fuel injection is better than carbs because the amount of fuel supplied upon acceleration is much more tightly controlled.

Carbs can be made to run almost as efficiently as fuel injection when the car is up to operating temperature, but no matter how much you try, carbs emit more emissions when the engine is cold. (This is why carbs are no longer used on automobiles.)

While they are robust, they require regular monitoring, as there are numerous ways in which they can go out of tune. I just had one of the floats in one of my carbs take on gasoline so that it no longer floated properly. Vacuum leaks, not only on the carbs themselves but also on ancillary systems like the brake booster and distributor vacuum advance circuit, are another area of concern. Quite simply, they are not as carefree as fuel injection, so you have to really want them in your car else the hassle is not worth it.
Then what do you feel is a viable alternative? I am just completing a pretty extensive restoration and want the car to behave as it looks, spirited. My engine is stock. Have updated suspension and exhaust..
 

Ohmess

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Then what do you feel is a viable alternative? I am just completing a pretty extensive restoration and want the car to behave as it looks, spirited. My engine is stock. Have updated suspension and exhaust..
The alternatives as I see them are (1) revert to the original carbs that were in your car, or (2) Convert to Weber 38/38s, or (3) change to a fuel injection system.

If I were in your shoes, I would look first at my starting point.

If you have the stock intake manifolds and carburetors and linkages that came on your car, I would evaluate whether to keep them. I’m told they are excellent when properly set up, and if you have the parts, this would be the least expensive alternative. The big advantage of this approach is that there are reference materials for installation and maintenance of these parts, which should make the installation and setup easier. In theory it should also help in finding a mechanic to work on the car. Webers have a reputation for improved performance, but I believe the reason so many stock carburetors were removed from our cars is that mechanics in the USA had far better knowledge with Webers, and little to none with the stock Zeniths, and therefore pushed conversions that mainly made their work easier.

The second alternative, discussed in a handful of the posts in this thread, is to go with the Weber 38/38s. In general, this alternative would retain your stock intake manifolds, fuel pump, and air cleaner, replacing the linkage and fuel lines and making some changes to vacuum lines and the choke mechanism. If you go down this path, I strongly recommend finding either a mechanic who has done this before, or if you are doing the work yourself, planning on asking lots and lots of questions here. And, of course, tuning would be a custom project as there are no reference materials for this conversion.

Fuel injection would likely be the most trouble free alternative, with similar (or slightly better) performance and improved fuel economy. If you decide to go fuel injection, I would recommend obtaining a stock system for the 3.0csi, which of course will entail buying primarily used parts and refurbishing them. Here again, this alternative has the advantage of factory reference materials. Given there are a lot more parts to replace, this alternative would probably be the most expensive.

If you need a mechanic to help with this stuff, I recommend that you seek out Mario Langston’s Vintage Sport and Restoration in New Hampshire. I know Mario did Tod’s 38/38 conversion and has converted carbureted coupes to fuel injection.
 
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