Need a mechanic near Ketchum, Idaho that can tune my e9

scottevest said:
I love this group. I don't believe he messed with the carbs; at least he said he didn't but he did do something. I asked him to take a look at the wires from battery and confirm if spark plugs need changing. He said the spark plugs did not to be changed, but their receiptionist told me that they didn't have them locally and needed to order them. I didn't think they were anything special and was suspicious. Then when I got the car back and it wasn't starting properly, idling much higher, and had a slight delay when starting up, I got even more concerned. Then, on top of all that seeing the fuse to cig lighter blown.

Generally, it's running "ok," but just not signing the way it was when Bill took care of it. It was like night and day.

I will quiz him. Just doesn't seem that it should be this complicated.

Thanks so much.

BTW, we have good snow coverage here. Mountain opens on Thursday. Love to ski with any of you.

Scott
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You have been careful not mentioning where you brought your car, assuming it was the spot near the airport? Has a lot of storage space for autos?
I have a couple people in mind, in town. Let me check in seeing their availability and interest. Its always surprising the talent that turns up there.
 
Todd, it’s a long story but did not get a complete list. The shop I am working with is a bit difficult to get an invoice from. I am going to talk with them this week to see if they could help me get to the bottom of this. Clearly something was done I just can’t put my finger on it but the information here is extremely helpful and I really appreciate it
 
Scott:
Perhaps you're willing to trust your senses to check a few things out in your own garage.

First, check or replace the fuel filter. Verify that the fuel pump pressure and volume are in spec at all rpm ranges.
Fuel delivery respects no one. Its the first system to check for any runability concern.

The mechanic who fiddled with "fluids and hoses" may have accidentally bumped a hand or tool against some
other hose, wire, or cable.
So get a strong flashlight, remove the air cleaner, and use your eyes and hands to touch, wiggle, and reseat each spark plug wire, each wire and vacuum hose at both ends especially the ones that attach to the carbs. Don't be timid.
If a hose or wire lets go or breaks in your hand, it was brittle and begging for replacement. opening and closing
spade connectors and harness plugs can help scratch and improve contacts.

Take a good look at the throttle linkage. The linkage or cable should have a slight bit of slack that you can feel. Have a friend slowly touch then push the gas pedal and examine that the 1st plates on both carbs start to open at the same time.
Same for the 2nd plates which should open at deeper pedal push (there's some interaction with chokes and vacuum
that I'm not trained up on.

Finally, put a torque wrench on all mounting nuts of the carbs and intake manifolds.

Logically, these kind of gross disturbances are quite likely and easy to fix just by replacing parts. Much easier
to understand than if the mechanic went into the carbs to set the float heights or re-jet.

Your description of the driving feel implies a recent, minor change in setup, so a thorough inspection of ageable components could very well result in finding a tiny crack, fitting, loose bolt, or other gremlin that got pushed over
the line to become a permanent problem.

What do I know, I started out on british motorcycles. Everything broke. repeatedly.
Stuart
 
skk said:
Scott:
Perhaps you're willing to trust your senses to check a few things out in your own garage.
Stuart
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I would LOVE to trust my senses, but unfortunately I learned from experience that trusting my senses only typically works when I'm doing things I have some comfort level with. I have pushed my comfort levels many levels past where I think I was able over the years. Hell, I'm designing websites and clothing, but trained as a lawyer. But when it comes to understanding mechanics, I'd be more comfortable trying brain surgery. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to be able to do this. I think it would be quite satisfying, and perhaps someday I will invest the time to understand it. But right now, it freaks me out. If this "mechanic," somehow accidentally bumped against something unknowingly and thus accidentally screwed up something else, I expect I would cause so much more damage. So, I think it best that I can provide a clear list to someone based upon this information, and hope for the best. I REALLY appreciate all your input. Thanks sooo much.

In terms of what was done, this is what I know: I brought the car in with the list below several weeks ago. After 10 days or so at the shop, I picked it up before all the work was done and said I'd bring it back once the remaining part arrived.

My list shown, with status shown in brackets
  • changing spark plugs, cap and rotor, and check points and condenser [not sure if this was done. when i met with the mechanic i think he said it wasn't done; confirm; said that spark plugs need replacing; one was off, but no big deal, and didn't need any adjustment in carbs]
  • changing coolant [done i believe]
  • brake fluid [done i believe]
  • check fuel hoses, [?]
  • Check belts, hoses, fuel lines, engine, transmission & differential oil, transmission bushing, flex disc & center support bearing.
The bulk power steering hose and rubber coupler are at Hailey Auto. [confirm if installed?]
E9 Power Steering PRESSURE HOSE 32411117565 [this was shipped from South America]
  • battery cables are unsafe position - needs tightened; battery stereo wire [done?]
  • Glibo on driveline is completely worn out. needs replaced. acts like a dampler for drivelant;. Need part; [done?]
  • belts are all cracking [replaced?]
  • small oil pan leak; minimal
  • power steering pump leaking; hose needs replacement;
  • all fuel hoses need to be replaced. you have parts [done?]
  • change spark plugs? gap - 0.034 [not done]
  • cap in rotor [what is this?]
  • replace wires when replacing spark plugs [to be done?]
  • coolant is fine
  • brake fluid replace
  • no tune needed - carbs are fine
  • front sway bar links bushing; need parts [done?]
  • emergency brake - need to look - simple fix [quote?]
  • clutch engagement and bleed - [done?]
  • replace clutch fluid [he said done]
  • center support bearing is ok
  • fan; ok; doesn't need it
  • wires on alternator; extra - don't mess with wiring - check
 
Per Bill Arnold:
"Does it run the same way and just sound different? If they advanced the ignition timing it could be pinging from too much advance
Bill Arnold"

It's hard to tell for sure if it runs the same; my sense is not the same, but I am so influenced by the sound. It was beautiful.
 
scottevest said:
Yea, that's what I thought. 4 hours is closer than 11 hours to SF....
Crazy that no one near me can do this. Do I need a "BMW" mechanic, or just a good old school mechanic that knows how to "tune carbs?" Frankly, after Don Lawrence tuned it, the car sounded and drove like pure joy. I can't imagine what my local mechanic did that ruined it. It's not horrible, but just nowhere nearly as pleasant sounding.

Thanks for your help.

Scott
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Just realized I got this wrong. Bill Arnold tuned it. Don helped with radiator and gave me general emotional support.
 
Bills a better driver and better with carbs than me- put him on an airplane to SUN
 
Scott
Boy you sure know how to pick the shops...

Lots of good advice, but IMHO too much!
Harder starting and a fluffy sounding exhaust but no loss in full power ... recently happened to a friend of mine (early 2002), after he took it to a local well known BMW classic car shop (in MA, NOT the one in NH). I was going to head over with my AFR to find the problem but he found it and fixed it in about 5 minutes. I suspect you might be suffering from the same thing.

finding a good mechanic:

(1) as you heard, most cars from the early 1960’s Thru the early 1980’s used carbs, and excluding the British cars, these will be enough like yours that a good mechanic with the correct workshop manual should have zero problems doing a full tune-up including carb adjustment. These same shops will be experts on your ignition system.

(2) There must be other car clubs and owners of German and Italian cars within a few hundred miles of you. Find the clubs , talk to their membership, stop other classic cars you see on the road, go to cars and coffe events, and then get recommendations from people who have long term relationships with their mechanics. Good guys are out there everywhere.

Trouble shooting it yourself
(1) without apriori knowledge, the causes of your change in sound are endless. But you have a priori knowledge - if you can get that shop to give you a decent list of what they did. I don’t work with guys who don’t write up meticulous invoices, but some good shops just don’t.

(2) I would take the excellent advice you have already been given and focus on the REALLY simple stuff specific to the things your shop did.

(3a) Looks like they touched your ignition so vacuum hoses and timing components are a pretty obvious place to start. A small mistake here can easily cause harder starting and a change in the exhaust sound.

(3b) Scott, I would NOT START W THE CARBS, despite your feeling that’s the source of your problems. Ignition and vac problems are easier/faster to check and solve. Do them first. If you have the original 1974 Zenith carbs, they have some pollution features that could fool a less than careful mechanic (a person that doesn’t understand the system carefully before turning screws). Not applicable to Weber’s. Example, the idle air bypass feature requires a different sync process that earlier systems having only a throttle plate stop. http://www.e9coupe.com/tech/zeniths/bmw1/bmw1.html

(4) if you had a bad spark plug connection your exhaust would sound lumpy/uneven, the engine would show significant shaking at idle, and the car would feel down on power when accelerating. Easy check, and you can do in 2 min by opening the hood. Do it.

(5) My money is on a dangling vacuum hose. Easy to check by any car owner. Flashlight and start looking around the distributor and carbs for a pencil thin hose that isnt connected. There should be a sticker in you engine bay showing you where these hoses go (did Bennie remove it durning the repair?). It’s als I your owner handbook and in the workshop manual.
0AA0DC3A-72C9-4F55-AFD2-931E4F033FBD.jpeg

(6) my second guess is they adjusted the distributor/timing and screwed it up. For this you need a $25 tool to check it, but it’s easily within the capability of a complete novice owner. ANY hands-on old car enthusiast could help you with this if you have the owners or workshop manual. Unfortunately I’m a 40 hour drive from you else I’d teach you how to do this. I am an avid skier...

John
 
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Scott - your communications are rather confusing here. Your initial post references a tune up, fluids and hoses. Your post from last night appears to indicate you had a more extensive list of work to be done, but then you picked up your car before the work was finished and now don't know what was done.

In addition, after the bold text about the power steering hose, the tenor of the post changes dramatically. This last section appears to be a report from the mechanic. If so, it appears that the mechanic has recommended replacing the cap, rotor, plugs and plug wires. If these components are in bad shape, it is unlikely your car will run either consistently or well. More importantly:

When a mechanic says that a battery cable is in an unsafe position, that usually means it is positioned such that it may contact something (the hood, for example). If this were to happen, it can damage your alternator and/or your battery. It can also create sparks, and you do not want random sparks under the hood of a car with carbs. This is a fire risk.

This list says your fuel hoses need to be replaced. If they fail, two bad things happen. First, they allow fuel to escape from the fuel system. Here you have another fire risk. Secondly, fuel does not get to the engine and the engine stops. Any mechanic should be able to replace fuel hoses. And in cars with carbs, pressure is low, so you can get serviceable hose from any auto parts store.

Cracked belts are a very basic thing that should be fixed immediately. If you lose your alternator belt, the water pump will not circulate coolant, the cooling fan will not act to help cool the engine and the alternator will not provide current to operate the ignition system, which will then run off the battery until the car dies, if it doesn't overheat first. While waiting for the proper BMW belt to arrive, you can pull off the old belt, take it to the auto parts store, and get one that is the same size. This is preferable to running with a cracked belt that may fail at any time.

An emergency brake issue is mentioned; hopefully this does not mean your emergency brake is inoperable. Driving without an emergency brake is a risk you should not take.

Before you focus on how your car sounds, fix the stuff that can kill you or leave you stranded.
 
I think Scott replied to my lengthy technical message #23 by saying he really needs and wants a professional
referral. We're not helping by giving yet more troubleshooting tips, much as I too would like to get some snow (oops,
help him in person)
 
My point was not to provide troubleshooting tips. My point was that Scott should not be seeking a referral to a carburetor guy to address tuning issues when he has a handful of important safety issues that should be addressed. Most of these do not require BMW specific knowledge, indeed most of these can be handled by any competent mechanic. You merely need to take the car in and say "fix my dangerous battery wiring." Then make sure that actually gets done.

I was tackling problems at this level of complexity when I was sixteen with a Chilton's manual and a handful of cheap hand tools.

If Scott gets a referral to a good mechanic, but directs the mechanic to less important problems, his situation will not improve. Fix the foundational stuff first, even if you have to isolate one problem for each trip to the mechanic.
 
Ohmess said:
My point was not to provide troubleshooting tips. My point was that Scott should not be seeking a referral to a carburetor guy to address tuning issues when he has a handful of important safety issues that should be addressed. Most of these do not require BMW specific knowledge, indeed most of these can be handled by any competent mechanic. You merely need to take the car in and say "fix my dangerous battery wiring." Then make sure that actually gets done.

I was tackling problems at this level of complexity when I was sixteen with a Chilton's manual and a handful of cheap hand tools.

If Scott gets a referral to a good mechanic, but directs the mechanic to less important problems, his situation will not improve. Fix the foundational stuff first, even if you have to isolate one problem for each trip to the mechanic.
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Ketchum is entering winter, temperatures into the single digits this week, snow will soon follow, for a few months. Leaving the area roads snow packed.
Ketchum/Sun Valley is a mountain town, not exactly safe nor sane roads in winter. Come late spring, summer, the roads are arguably way cool. I would use this time to my advantage, getting those fundamental issues addressed first. However, the one and only shop in town, rather qualified, is problematic for Scott. So off it goes to another shop that must learn the car from scratch. Certain small cities just don’t have resources working on E9’s.
The issues he listed, to me, are delayed maintenance. Highlighting lack of qualified mechanics keeping his prideful BMW up to speed. I would use the time, if I him, preparing a budget for shipping it to Salt Lake,Portland, Seattle, San Francisco and yes, Post Falls Idaho.(Marks Auto is as good as they come). Thereby establishing a relationship with a good mechanic for a car that will continue to be his pride. Its the price of admission for a 50 year old, timeless designed BMW. Garaged at least 400 miles from the closet competent mechanics. My two cents.
 
Isn’t there a stupendous race shop near Bend OR that takes care of a bunch of incredible vintage BMW race cars for Steve? I’ll bet they could help Scott out. In my limited experience, a good race prep shop (vintage in this case) will be VERY meticulous about both the work and their record keeping, and their mentality is to be more preventative than a regular shop. Plus, i find race mechanics to be more sensitive to things being slightly off. For someone like Scott who doesn’t have easy access to a good shop nearby, perhaps a shop that takes a more proactive approach would be better.
 
So, oddly, it "seems" MY BABY is running slightly better, but I'm not sure. Every forth time I try to start it, there is an odd hesitation, but goes away. I called the mechanic and he said he didn't touch the carbs. I read him highlights from this forum post and he said, "makes sense, bring her in and we'll get it sorted." Here's what he did:


AMOUNT DUE
$994.21
Approved Jobs
LOF



Tech: B Vargas



Authorized on October 16, 2020 at 03:22 PM
Subtotal
$118.01
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$5.88
Job Total
$123.89
Belt Replacement



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$284.52
Fuel Line Repair



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Authorized on November 24, 2020 at 04:54 PM
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$135.00
Guibo Replacement



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Clutch Fluid Replacement



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$129.10
Coolant Flush



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Authorized on November 24, 2020 at 05:00 PM
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$207.00
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$2.70
Job Total
$209.70
Repair Order Summary
DescriptionAmount
Total Jobs$907.93
Total Fees$66.00
Subtotal$973.93
Taxes$20.28
Grand Total$994.21
Paid To Date$0.00
BALANCE DUE$994.21

AMOUNT DUE
$994.21
 
Based on that list, I agree with a previous poster about checking for whether or not there’s a fuel filter just before the carbs (in the engine bay), and if so is it clogged. The. Is check for a vacuum leak related to the distributor vacuum lines.

The 2nd you can do by yourself. All you need is one eye ;-) and maybe a flashlight.

John
 
Glad to see those things addressed. One question on your battery, and the wiring issues mentioned. Is the battery secured so that it cannot move? If it is not, this is the minimum you should do to make sure the wiring issue does not become a big problem.
 
Now I'm confused. Did you bring the car to the shop BECAUSE it was experiencing the symptoms you describe?

"My e9 was running awesomely since it last visited you, until recently. After it left your care, it sounded awesome, and ran perfectly. But, I brought the car to my local shop and simply asked if it needed a tune-up, they said no, and checked spark plugs and replaced fluids and hoses, but oddly it sounds much different than it did when you last tuned it. Sounds tinny when accelerating, not deep and throaty like it did when you tuned it.'

...or did it start experience those symptoms only AFTER it left the shop?

If it was not running right BEFORE you took it to the shop, there is a pretty long list of possible causes.

If AFTER it left the shop, the list of possible causes is limited to those items the mechanic was involved in either intentionally or accidentally.
 
Dick, it began running poorly AFTER I picked it up. BUT it seems to have worked itself out. It sounds better, or I am just getting used to it.

There is a fuel filter present.

The battery does need to be secured.
 
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