Newbie finds 1968 2000CS stored 22 years

Discussion in 'E9 Projects and Restorations' started by rdholland, Oct 8, 2011.

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Stock or modify / rallye car?

  1. Keep it stock, get it running, just drive it?

    42 vote(s)
    72.4%
  2. Modify / vintage rallye / cut and weld / high perform?

    16 vote(s)
    27.6%
  1. rdholland

    rdholland New Member

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    Hello everyone, I enjoy reading your posts. There is so much to learn here. So, I've never owned a BMW before. My son is a student at UTI in Phoenix on his way to the BMW STEP program there. He drives a 95 M3. This past April I find a 1968 2000CS on C/L stored there untouched under a carport for 22 years. I am the first caller 20 minutes after the ad is posted. I buy the car sight unseen and with a lost title because that's always the smart thing to do! :shock:

    The car still had CA blue plates and was driven to Phoenix when the owner drove home from college in 1988. He parked the car there and there it stayed. His mom sold it to yours truly. I had my son arrange to get the car moved to a secure storage via flat-bed tow service. Of course, we know better than to try and start it, and the tires were dry-rotted to pieces anyway. My son borrowed some rims / tires from a friend's E30 ( I think) for the transport.

    I thought it would be fun to get it started, you know, father son project, right? Problem: 116 degrees, storage unit with no electricity, water or a/c tends to limit such endeavors just a bit. I finally went down to see my son Cody and the car around the first of Sept. I decided we should just simplify life and sell it.

    Then we worked on it for about 3.5 hours in that storage unit; read: Dante's Inferno. Cody had removed the fuel tank and radiator at my request and had both refinished / re-cored. We put those back in, mounted the wheels with new tires I had ordered. Oh yeah, and put the hood back on - that was fun. During the process of sweating off several pounds and nearly dying from dehydration an evil demon within the car was awakened. It got into my head and caused a sort of crazy, 'where were you my whole life' attachment / possession of my mind.

    We started tearing into the engine bay / engine from the top down in order to find the beast and reason with it. This was to no avail. The result of this is visible in some of the pics on the photobucket link. Now the car is on a transport headed to Anchorage, AK where I live. It should be here in the next day or two. The lines of that car with the eloquent simplicity of its factory M10 just won't leave me alone.

    Now the toughest part: do I perform a 'sympathetic' restoration to stock or should I drop the bumpers, strip the interior and start a vintage / rallye race project? I am truly on the fence here - help me out! Here is a link to my photobucket sight which should work:
    http://s1087.photobucket.com/albums/j461/1968bmw

    Sorry for the short-story introduction; just had to get that off my chest.
    Regards,
    Rob Holland
     

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  2. Stevehose

    Stevehose Well-Known Member Site Donor $

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    Great story - I say clean it up, blast waxoil (or the like) into every cavity you can find, and drive it.
     
  3. Henry2000cs

    Henry2000cs New Member

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    Nice.. Congratulation on your 2000cs! Cant wait to see you start the project. Life is too short, you should be the god of your life and what you have, not vice versa. Do what you like.
     
  4. Nicad

    Nicad Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling your Son is getting cut out of this deal!! Looks like a great project. I think if it were mine, I'd go slight resto mod in the suspension. Keep the engine bay and induction stock (it is already missing the Solex carbsbut Webers look like they belong), change all the suspension links and bushings. Add Bilsteins, springs and some period correct 14 or 15 inch wheel with Modern rubber. Fix the rust of course. As much as the steering wheel is classic, I think I'd swap it for a Petri. Love the dash.
    In the side mirror shot I can feel your pain....and body grime.
     
  5. deQuincey

    deQuincey Well-Known Member

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    the 2000cs is a classic looking car, more than the 2800 or 3,0
    it is not as easy to find as our 3.0 cs or csi
    so i think you have been touched by the wizard´s arm (or won the lottery), this is once in a lifetime, you should take advantage of it

    i the car were mine i would try to restore it to the standards probably in a limited restoration lenght and try to drive as soon as possible for let´s say 1 or 2 years, then i will made up my mind if i like the way it behaves as a classic or i would like something different (including new suspension, ...)

    regards
     
  6. rdholland

    rdholland New Member

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    Thanks for the positive comments. I am going to keep the car stock; that just seems like the most prudent way to get it on the road. I might get some Panasport rims and wider rubber in the near future but that is just bolt-on. Also, I found a cool Nardi steering wheel, period correct with a BMW hub but it is expensive of course so I'll wait a bit and attend to more practical matters first.

    I will definitely go through the brakes first. Since it sat so long, I think I should order all new break lines / shoes / etc. Regarding the calipers, my question is should I just order a re-build kit or send them in to be re-built. I am assuming that the reason some of you send yours in is due to the fact that they may be corroded and need to be polished or honed n the piston bores:?:

    Are there brake upgrades I should consider before spending money on the stock brakes or is a quality caliper rebuild and new lines sufficient?

    OK, no matter what I need to replace my front and rear roundels. Is it completely ridiculous of me to expect to find the correct cloisonne ones? Cause I want those really bad. Anyone?? My C Pillar roundels are there but not perfect. I would love to have two perfect ones - or Alpina examples just for fun.

    Regards,
    Rob Holland
     
  7. Nicad

    Nicad Well-Known Member

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    Keep an eye on Ebay.de for CS2000 parts. Use Google translate to find search terms and make contact.
     
  8. HB Chris

    HB Chris Well-Known Member Site Donor $

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    You have the same euphoria that many of us have experienced when bringing home a coupe for the first time. I would spend some time exploring the extent of rust, that right front fender indicates there may be even more hiding in the rockers and quarter panels. Then do the brakes, if they are like very early 2002s with single lines then parts will be harder to find. Raised letter roundels are still available, the ones for the C pillar are too but the color is now more purple for some reason. Good luck and keep us informed on your progress, lots of help just a fingertip away.

    Chris
     
  9. Koopman

    Koopman Well-Known Member Site Donor

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    2000cs parts

    Hi:
    Sounds like my first project,a 67 2000CS. My current is a 66 that is 90% restored.
    I have two fenders and two rear quarters for a 2000cs along with many other parts. Please email me with parts you may need.
    Gooid luck.
    Koopman
     
  10. craterface

    craterface Active Member Site Donor

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  11. pamp

    pamp Active Member

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    Nothing but fun

    Hmm...to Anchorage no less. Trouble being the shipping these days...expensive. May have been better to leave the car in the sunny south. That said, in my own travels I did run into
    a coupe in Anchorage. In a storage yard and looking sad. The owner said he was unwilling to sell...saving for a son to restore. We know how that goes...seems your own shares the passion, hope that the Anchorage owner instilled the same to his own yoot. I always wonder how that car turned out...hopefully saved.
     
  12. rdholland

    rdholland New Member

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    She arrived home today; 3600 miles over the road. You can tell from the pictures she looks a bit pissed and humiliated. I couldn't force myself to keep it in the driveway and use a hose because I did not want to douse it with any extra water. I will use the damp towel method to clean off the extra weight gained on the trip.

    I'll tear into the brakes next, while soaking the engine cylinders more with Mystery Oil. Then we'll see if we can get it running with the motor in its present form. We'll need to do a kitchen table rebuild of those Webers first, of course.

    I am worried about the rust but I'm going to get it running first no matter what because it will at least be drivable from what I can see. There is rust under the passenger side rocker and what you can see in the pics on the passenger side fender with the hood up. I don't have room in my garage for a proper survey of the rust. I'll get it to a friends house / shop next spring to plan the extent of the cut and weld. I tore away more of the grey plastic trunk liner tonight and am very happy with how solid the shock towers and surrounding area is. More pics of this soon and I will draw on your collective opinions for where to look next.
    Thanks,
    Rob
     

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  13. audiomagnate

    audiomagnate Member

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    It looks pretty clean to me. Nice score. If the shock towers are rust free most likely it was a California car that went to bake in the desert for 23 years, which is good news.
     
  14. audiomagnate

    audiomagnate Member

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    Not true! The value is headed somewhere. Downward! Restoring a 2000CS properly costs a fortune in time and money, and when you're done NOBODY wants it. Restore it for love, or bastardize it, but a well restored version is a thing of absolute beauty, and a blast to drive.
     
  15. rdholland

    rdholland New Member

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    Restore for value?

    I tend to agree with Audiomagnate, the monetary values are not in restoring these cars when you factor a complete dis-assembly / rotisserie job. I just don't see it. My interest in this car for example, will be a partial restoration to drivable condition. We will paint this car as a roller, remove the glass, patch necessary rust, new seals, etc. I'm not going to remove all the running gear and try to strip off the undercoating, except of course for the passenger side rocker and replace the passenger side front fender.

    The downside to this is that I will never really know where all of the rust is because I'm not going to completely strip the body. Or is that the upside to this? Now I'm confused.
     
  16. audiomagnate

    audiomagnate Member

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    Check the rear wheel wells. If rusty we need to talk about parts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  17. rdholland

    rdholland New Member

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    1968 2000CS Trunk area and Wheel Wells

    Hello, I have attached some pics of the rear shock towers / wheel wells. I'm having a really tough time deciding on a direction with this car. If I elect to modify it, then any rust I find can more easily be strengthened without regard to stock fit and finish. I can see how it could be quite easy to strengthen this car with front / rear shock tower struts, roll cage and additional bracing underneath. But there would be no going back.

    My frame of reference is limited to this one car. The only others I have seen are pictures. Of course, most of those are pics of whole cars, exterior, interior shots as opposed to detailed comparisons of the rust-prone areas.

    What do you guys think of the condition of the trunk area? It seems quite solid to me. The passenger rocker is definitely toast, but I know that can be ordered and cut / welded in place.

    Regards,
    Rob
    rdholland@gci.net
     

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  18. jmackro

    jmackro Well-Known Member

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    Rob:

    Congratulations on finding a unmolested example of a rare car. In my opinion, you should keep it original. The intact dash and bumpers on your car are pretty scarce - it would be a shame to trash them. Most people start out with a rough, incomplete car and have to acquire the missing trim parts necessary to build a well-restored example. If you really want a hot rodded rally car, sell your nice example, watch ebay for a few months, and find a partially complete 2000 to use as the starting point.

    It generally looks solid, yes. However, in the photo below I think I see corrosion where the outer fender joins the wheelwell. That sort of damage needs to be fixed whether you are building a pseudo rally car, a "driver" restoration, or a concours queen.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  19. rdholland

    rdholland New Member

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    Rust analysis help, final decision phase

    Thank you for you help thus far. I have the coupe up on stands with the wheels off. The brake caliper bolts are soaking with WD40 for removal soon. I have posted pictures here of the rust area that scares me the most. As I have previously stated, I have no first-hand basis of comparison with these cars.

    There is the rust on my passenger top fender and where it joins the extension under the hood which I had shown pix of in the original photobucket link.

    I have some rust at the very top of the shock tower which I have exposed with an angle grinder. This worries me greatly. I have posted pix of that here today. Surprisingly, it seems quite solid from underneath throughout all of the structural components. I have posted pics of this as well. Hopefully there is enough detail there for you guys that have seen this before on these cars.

    The drivers side top sheet metal at the tower has some similar rust but underneath is even cleaner than the passenger side so I did not include pix of that. I have poked around with a screwdriver under both sides actually very hard and it all seems very solid.

    Is it practical to try and keep these fender top extensions stock or should I go with stainless steel fabrications sacrificing stock for solid, cut and weld fix. I want to keep the car stock if possible but I am not in a position to do a rotisserie restoration so practicality comes into play.

    I really appreciate any help here. This will be the final decision point for how I should proceed with the car. The rockers will need to be replaced, especially the passenger side. The front floor pans are a bit weak also. The entire rear area of the vehicle is very solid with only a bit of corrosion on the passenger quarter panel.

    Thanks,
    Rob
     

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  20. HB Chris

    HB Chris Well-Known Member Site Donor $

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    Rob,

    Have you seen the Coupeking website? This link shows how deep surface issues can go.

    http://www.coupeking.com/cs-rust-pix-2338

    I am afraid you have a lot of work ahead of you, good luck, I hope you can save this coupe.

    Chris
     

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