Oil & Filter

[jhjacobs]

This is probably a bad topic, akin to asking about coupe values, but does anyone have any "scientific" opinions about what is the best oil to use in a standard coupe engine? I really don't know the heritage of my engine but I know it has been worked on before I got it. My odometer is at 5,000 miles (105K, 205K, 305K, ???). My compression is good and even and there is no indication of undue engine wear (quite and smooth operation). My head has a '77 cast mark. I have no oil spots under the car and oil consumption is modest (1/2qt every 2-3K miles). I have typically used 20W-50 Castrol GTX and avoided synthethics. When I put synthetic in my E3 years ago it started leaking out the main seal and many of the gaskets - maybe conincidence but I've seen this before on other older engines too. So what's is the best oil or is there any difference today?

On the topic of oil filters, my oil filter housing seems to be from a later model 2.8-3.5 engine. I had one hell of a time figuring out what filter to purchase because the BMW part# cast into the housing is 1266373 along with Purolator PM 2433. According to my ETK database this is not a valid number. I did find that the 11422 1266372 was used on '85ish 2.8L thru 3.5L and the filter seems to fit properly. So, does anyone have a fact based opinion on the best filter to use? I have found the following filters on the market for my housing:

Purolator L30084
Fram 2965 (this actually does not appear to be right)
Wix 51732 (Jiffy lube seems to also list this number)
Napa NASCAR NFI 91732
Napa Gold FIL 1732
NAPA ATM OX41D
Mahle ATM 72128
Bosch ATM HU9303X

If this starts a rant thread, my apologies in advance.

 

[jhjacobs]

This is probably a bad topic, akin to asking about coupe values, but does anyone have any "scientific" opinions about what is the best oil to use in a standard coupe engine? I really don't know the heritage of my engine but I know it has been worked on before I got it. My odometer is at 5,000 miles (105K, 205K, 305K, ???). My compression is good and even and there is no indication of undue engine wear (quite and smooth operation). My head has a '77 cast mark. I have no oil spots under the car and oil consumption is modest (1/2qt every 2-3K miles). I have typically used 20W-50 Castrol GTX and avoided synthethics. When I put synthetic in my E3 years ago it started leaking out the main seal and many of the gaskets - maybe conincidence but I've seen this before on other older engines too. So what's is the best oil or is there any difference today?

On the topic of oil filters, my oil filter housing seems to be from a later model 2.8-3.5 engine. I had one hell of a time figuring out what filter to purchase because the BMW part# cast into the housing is 1266373 along with Purolator PM 2433. According to my ETK database this is not a valid number. I did find that the 11422 1266372 was used on '85ish 2.8L thru 3.5L and the filter seems to fit properly. So, does anyone have a fact based opinion on the best filter to use? I have found the following filters on the market for my housing:

Purolator L30084
Fram 2965 (this actually does not appear to be right)
Wix 51732 (Jiffy lube seems to also list this number)
Napa NASCAR NFI 91732
Napa Gold FIL 1732
NAPA ATM OX41D
Mahle ATM 72128
Bosch ATM HU9303X

If this starts a rant thread, my apologies in advance.

 

[Honolulu]

shoot, I'll jump in

I'd start oil consideration with what the factory originally intended... which in my neighborhood would be straight 30 or 40 weight. Multi-vis was not made in the 70's (correct me?).

Okay thus a minimum viscosity equivalent to a straight 30 weight is appropriate. If you're really into it, look up the kinematic viscosity of 30 weight, and proceed from there.

Castrol is guilty of some finagling of their labeling (in my and the opinions of some others) with regard to the use of the "synthetic" label. They are no longer the premeir oil producer.

Oil content now is changing too, and the SAE seems to be in cahoots with the manufacturers concerning additives, particularly for "enery efficient" oils. ZDDP levels which I consider important for older motors which have some wear (maybe not yours) are dropping and I for one don't like that, so I run Delo 400, yes a diesel oil, but with a relatively high level of anti-wear protection.

But oil is a commodity, and anyone with a specification, and able to buy a sufficient amount, will have one of the majors make an oil for them. Doesn't BMW get theirs from Castrol? For shame, but heck I can't buy a new one anyway, so no matter.

Consider too, that SAE ratings are not the only game in town. In Europe, ACEA ratings are the cat's, and the wife's Benz gets only ACEA-rated oil. It's expensive synthetic at $8 per quart, $50 to change.

Best you do some research and make your own decisions. Recall that opinons are like assholes - everyone's got one. There are innumerable websites. "Bob's the Oil Guy" will have some data for you, as will others.

 

[Honolulu]

shoot, I'll jump in

I'd start oil consideration with what the factory originally intended... which in my neighborhood would be straight 30 or 40 weight. Multi-vis was not made in the 70's (correct me?).

Okay thus a minimum viscosity equivalent to a straight 30 weight is appropriate. If you're really into it, look up the kinematic viscosity of 30 weight, and proceed from there.

Castrol is guilty of some finagling of their labeling (in my and the opinions of some others) with regard to the use of the "synthetic" label. They are no longer the premeir oil producer.

Oil content now is changing too, and the SAE seems to be in cahoots with the manufacturers concerning additives, particularly for "enery efficient" oils. ZDDP levels which I consider important for older motors which have some wear (maybe not yours) are dropping and I for one don't like that, so I run Delo 400, yes a diesel oil, but with a relatively high level of anti-wear protection.

But oil is a commodity, and anyone with a specification, and able to buy a sufficient amount, will have one of the majors make an oil for them. Doesn't BMW get theirs from Castrol? For shame, but heck I can't buy a new one anyway, so no matter.

Consider too, that SAE ratings are not the only game in town. In Europe, ACEA ratings are the cat's, and the wife's Benz gets only ACEA-rated oil. It's expensive synthetic at $8 per quart, $50 to change.

Best you do some research and make your own decisions. Recall that opinons are like assholes - everyone's got one. There are innumerable websites. "Bob's the Oil Guy" will have some data for you, as will others.

 

[jhjacobs]

Hon - thanks for the input. I guess for now I will stick with Purolator filters and Castrol GTX 20W-50.

Back in the early 70's multi-vis was available. In fact, the CS owners manual calls for 30W, 40W, or 20W-50 when temps are warm and 20W or 10W-30/40/450 when cold.

The only synthetic I've ever used is Mobil 1. It came out around 1977 or so. I once put it in an Old's Cutlass and ran it over 85K miles with filter-only changes each25K. I never had any problems other than leaks. I've tended to use it on everything but older engines. My behavior here is surely governed by an old wives tale that says Synthetics are harmful to some order gaskets and old natural rubber seals. I never knew the truth on this subject but I got biased early after experiencing post synthetic leaks (which were probably going to happen anyway.

 

[jhjacobs]

Hon - thanks for the input. I guess for now I will stick with Purolator filters and Castrol GTX 20W-50.

Back in the early 70's multi-vis was available. In fact, the CS owners manual calls for 30W, 40W, or 20W-50 when temps are warm and 20W or 10W-30/40/450 when cold.

The only synthetic I've ever used is Mobil 1. It came out around 1977 or so. I once put it in an Old's Cutlass and ran it over 85K miles with filter-only changes each25K. I never had any problems other than leaks. I've tended to use it on everything but older engines. My behavior here is surely governed by an old wives tale that says Synthetics are harmful to some order gaskets and old natural rubber seals. I never knew the truth on this subject but I got biased early after experiencing post synthetic leaks (which were probably going to happen anyway.

 

[sfdon]

That Fram filter is a nightmare- never fits for me, too long by a 1/4 inch.

 

[sfdon]

That Fram filter is a nightmare- never fits for me, too long by a 1/4 inch.

 

[jhjacobs]

SFDOn,

Do you have the stock filter cannister with the center bolt on the bottom or do you have one of the later model cannisters with the center bolt on the top?

I have one of the new cannisters which is much nicer to deal with. The old style loves to dump oil all over everything when you pull the mount bolt and you almost need to pull the battery to get the d&mned rig out of the car. The newer design can pull easily removed without spilling oil. Back on the 70's when dealing with the bottom bolt cannisters I always kept a supply of housing gaskets around and I pull the whole assembly off the engine at the risk of damaging the thread on the four mount bolts.

 

[jhjacobs]

SFDOn,

Do you have the stock filter cannister with the center bolt on the bottom or do you have one of the later model cannisters with the center bolt on the top?

I have one of the new cannisters which is much nicer to deal with. The old style loves to dump oil all over everything when you pull the mount bolt and you almost need to pull the battery to get the d&mned rig out of the car. The newer design can pull easily removed without spilling oil. Back on the 70's when dealing with the bottom bolt cannisters I always kept a supply of housing gaskets around and I pull the whole assembly off the engine at the risk of damaging the thread on the four mount bolts.

 

[pmansson]

Does the later cannister fit straigt onto the engineblock once the old style is removed?
Different gaskets perhaps?

 

[pmansson]

Does the later cannister fit straigt onto the engineblock once the old style is removed?
Different gaskets perhaps?

 

[jhjacobs]

Mine fits with the same gasket. The mount housing just bolts right on - however after looking at the diagram in the parts catalog I am wondering if my block is different too (the gaskets have the same part number but they appear to be mirror images)?! I've see three different gasket designs but I am pretty sure they the first one will work (there appears to be an unused chamber on one of them and one has an oblong oil port. I think any M30 engine (2.8L-3.5L) from the 80's (perhaps as early as '77) used this newer design. I sure that someone on the board knows the exact details. I actually when out and purchased one just after getting my coupe only to find out that the previous owner had already done the conversion. I also tend to make my own gaskets for small things like this.

Mine uses gastet #2 (new design)

http://www.bmwmobiletradition-onlin...el=4274&mospid=47230&btnr=11_0471&hg=11&fg=30

Old design

http://www.bmwmobiletradition-onlin...el=3435&mospid=47811&btnr=11_2445&hg=11&fg=30

 

[jhjacobs]

Mine fits with the same gasket. The mount housing just bolts right on - however after looking at the diagram in the parts catalog I am wondering if my block is different too (the gaskets have the same part number but they appear to be mirror images)?! I've see three different gasket designs but I am pretty sure they the first one will work (there appears to be an unused chamber on one of them and one has an oblong oil port. I think any M30 engine (2.8L-3.5L) from the 80's (perhaps as early as '77) used this newer design. I sure that someone on the board knows the exact details. I actually when out and purchased one just after getting my coupe only to find out that the previous owner had already done the conversion. I also tend to make my own gaskets for small things like this.

Mine uses gastet #2 (new design)

http://www.bmwmobiletradition-onlin...el=4274&mospid=47230&btnr=11_0471&hg=11&fg=30

Old design

http://www.bmwmobiletradition-onlin...el=3435&mospid=47811&btnr=11_2445&hg=11&fg=30

 

[KHB]

My engine is an '83 3.3L and it has the top bolt filter. The cannister is marked PM2433 also. I have used the Mahle OX51 and the Mann HU930/3X. The Mahle OX41D (11 42 1 256 402) is shorter and larger in diameter and does not fit my cannister. I have 2 of them that I can't use. Looking at the ETK this one is used on the bottom bolt housing up thru '76 (perhaps later, but I didn't check).

I'm partial to Mahle, Mann and Hengst filters myself.

Kevin

 

[KHB]

My engine is an '83 3.3L and it has the top bolt filter. The cannister is marked PM2433 also. I have used the Mahle OX51 and the Mann HU930/3X. The Mahle OX41D (11 42 1 256 402) is shorter and larger in diameter and does not fit my cannister. I have 2 of them that I can't use. Looking at the ETK this one is used on the bottom bolt housing up thru '76 (perhaps later, but I didn't check).

I'm partial to Mahle, Mann and Hengst filters myself.

Kevin

 

[jhjacobs]

KHB - Thanks for the update. I'm beginning to think I should probably go out and purchase one filter of each type and do some comparative analysis. I must say the the Purolator I just installed was not terribly impressive, it appeared to be constructed with the same material as a roll of Charmin.

The stock bottom bolt filter assembly did use a considerably larger filter. In my experience they were also housed in an aluminum jacket. The inside may have been TP but at least the overall assembly seemed decent. To change the filter you had two choices: Pull it from the bottom with the center bolt and get oil everywhere or pull it from the top by pulling the 4 block bolts and the battery and then getting oil everywhere.

Is there a remote filter mount upgrade available - one that uses a spin-on filter and mounts through a pressure line?

 

[jhjacobs]

KHB - Thanks for the update. I'm beginning to think I should probably go out and purchase one filter of each type and do some comparative analysis. I must say the the Purolator I just installed was not terribly impressive, it appeared to be constructed with the same material as a roll of Charmin.

The stock bottom bolt filter assembly did use a considerably larger filter. In my experience they were also housed in an aluminum jacket. The inside may have been TP but at least the overall assembly seemed decent. To change the filter you had two choices: Pull it from the bottom with the center bolt and get oil everywhere or pull it from the top by pulling the 4 block bolts and the battery and then getting oil everywhere.

Is there a remote filter mount upgrade available - one that uses a spin-on filter and mounts through a pressure line?

 

[CincinnatiE9]

When I drove an E46 and E90 the dealer delt with it and I never have put oil in my 3.0, but here is my $.02.

On oil, I would recommend Mobil1 for a synthetic.

I run a full synthetic in my 1984 Fiero, it only had 10,210 miles on it, so the seals are all fine so it doesn't leak and I didn't have to have to change oil (it just sits). Ironically it currently has walmart full synthetic and a walmart filter.

In my 3800SC I run Mobil1 and a Mobil1 filter, treat her well, and hopefully it will deal with my abuse.

The drop off in ZDDP is a concern for me too, especially since all my motor are older pushrod motors, excluding the lexus. My solution has been to short my oil fill a hair and top off with a bottle of STP oil additive, its chock full of ZDDP. I run a semi-synthetic in my 96k mile Fiero and it leaks no more than a conventional, but I still like to throw a bottle of STP in there. I run highmileage oils in my Lexus 330 and my Dodge truck, both get a dose of STP. Never had issues with it before and I like the thought of adding some ZDDP back to my oil.
http://www.stp.com/faqs_oil.html

The only problem with running a straight 30, 40, or 50 weight is they are often non-detergent oils, which in a street motor, I'd want to have detergents in there personally, keep the oil filter doing something.

Castrol had a 50w race oil back in the day when I sold autoparts that was not an "HD non detergent" like the pennzoil straight weights.

 

[CincinnatiE9]

When I drove an E46 and E90 the dealer delt with it and I never have put oil in my 3.0, but here is my $.02.

On oil, I would recommend Mobil1 for a synthetic.

I run a full synthetic in my 1984 Fiero, it only had 10,210 miles on it, so the seals are all fine so it doesn't leak and I didn't have to have to change oil (it just sits). Ironically it currently has walmart full synthetic and a walmart filter.

In my 3800SC I run Mobil1 and a Mobil1 filter, treat her well, and hopefully it will deal with my abuse.

The drop off in ZDDP is a concern for me too, especially since all my motor are older pushrod motors, excluding the lexus. My solution has been to short my oil fill a hair and top off with a bottle of STP oil additive, its chock full of ZDDP. I run a semi-synthetic in my 96k mile Fiero and it leaks no more than a conventional, but I still like to throw a bottle of STP in there. I run highmileage oils in my Lexus 330 and my Dodge truck, both get a dose of STP. Never had issues with it before and I like the thought of adding some ZDDP back to my oil.
http://www.stp.com/faqs_oil.html

The only problem with running a straight 30, 40, or 50 weight is they are often non-detergent oils, which in a street motor, I'd want to have detergents in there personally, keep the oil filter doing something.

Castrol had a 50w race oil back in the day when I sold autoparts that was not an "HD non detergent" like the pennzoil straight weights.