Oil pump woes

[DJSimca]

Hi all,

I have taken the engine in my E9 CSL apart because the cylinder head developed a crack last year. It took me a very long time to find the right type of cylinder head (with the oblongish water channels) so if you have one or more of these earlier heads (pre 1978 ca) lying around, be sure to keep they: they are very valuable - at least until BMW starts producing these early heads again in the beginning of 2018

Anyway, I am asking your assistance not in connection with the cylinder heads but with a bad situation with my oil pump. Now that the engine in taken apart I see that the oil pump chain is very long (= worn) so that definitely needs changing. I also have noticed that it takes 'some seconds' for the engine oil light to come off so I thought that I would replace the pump --- only believe it or not - the oil pump is NLA !!!!!!

I spoke to Nesch from W&N and he told me that the company who produces the pumps has gone out of business and that pumps from other M30 engines (like E12, E24, E28) DON'T FIT!!
Can this really be true? Are the pumps or the 'suction mechanism' so different between early 70ies M30 engines that I need to find a pump from an E3 or E9 to be certain that it fits? I can hardly believe it.

I am hoping someone on this forum - somewhere in the world can provide some facts about this issue. I would obviously prefer to find a new pump, failing that I need to find a pump which hasn't covered 100.000s kilometer. But first obviously I need to find out which oil pump will actually fit in my engine. It's a 3003 cc engine from 1973.

Tips, hints, insights are much appreciated.

Torben

 

[deQuincey]

so real Torben,

i read with concern all your post, i see your point, you seem to be in the opposite direction to the rest of us,

keeping the oblong water passages heads ? everybody is trying to get new ones as being those oblong so delicate in terms of overheating issues
i understand that if you have a matching numbers csl worth big money you try to keep originality, well done
BTW, i do have a 1971 head in nice condition, i went the other route,...my wife wants me to dispose of it asap, i am resisting

IMHO, BMW will be unable to produce those heads again, believe me i have been talking to them last five years on a very sensitive part, and they are hopeless

i already knew that the oil pump is NLA, so sad, it went up from 300 euro to 480 and then vanished in the air, such a responsible brand bmw,...

but i would like to shed a bit of light on this for you, when i rebulit my humble M30 B30 engine i bought an oil pump, it was then possible to install but you can not close the oil pan, point was that the oil pump suction end had being fitted with an additional filter cup

this is the typical point that makes mr. nelly so nervous about the idoneity of a part, he will immediately refuse the possibility of using it in your car, they will not sell anything that is not a plug and play thing, and they will tell you there is no way even if with a little modification things can be solved, wally&nelly are very strict, good for them

my engine has completed 14.000 km since it was rebuilt, and the pump is happy and healthy so far, we only needed to cut the cup using an angle grinder

 

[DJSimca]

Thanks for your response, you seem to know a lot that nobody else seems to know, good for you

Well originality is obviously of some concern, but not at the expense of driving the car.

You say you have switched to a newer head, I have been told (not by Nesch) that the newer heads won't fit the older blocks because of the shape of the combustion chamber. Is this also a case of using an angle grinder

So can I buy any M30 oil pump and make it work or is there a particular model that is easier to make fit than others?

Appreciate your insights.

so real Torben,

i read with concern all your post, i see your point, you seem to be in the opposite direction to the rest of us,

keeping the oblong water passages heads ? everybody is trying to get new ones as being those oblong so delicate in terms of overheating issues
i understand that if you have a matching numbers csl worth big money you try to keep originality, well done
BTW, i do have a 1971 head in nice condition, i went the other route,...my wife wants me to dispose of it asap, i am resisting

IMHO, BMW will be unable to produce those heads again, believe me i have been talking to them last five years on a very sensitive part, and they are hopeless

i already knew that the oil pump is NLA, so sad, it went up from 300 euro to 480 and then vanished in the air, such a responsible brand bmw,...

but i would like to shed a bit of light on this for you, when i rebulit my humble M30 B30 engine i bought an oil pump, it was then possible to install but you can not close the oil pan, point was that the oil pump suction end had being fitted with an additional filter cup

this is the typical point that makes mr. nelly so nervous about the idoneity of a part, he will immediately refuse the possibility of using it in your car, they will not sell anything that is not a plug and play thing, and they will tell you there is no way even if with a little modification things can be solved, wally&nelly are very strict, good for them

my engine has completed 14.000 km since it was rebuilt, and the pump is happy and healthy so far, we only needed to cut the cup using an angle grinder

 

[deQuincey]

Thanks for your response, you seem to know a lot that nobody else seems to know, good for you

Well originality is obviously of some concern, but not at the expense of driving the car.

You say you have switched to a newer head, I have been told (not by Nesch) that the newer heads won't fit the older blocks because of the shape of the combustion chamber. Is this also a case of using an angle grinder

So can I buy any M30 oil pump and make it work or is there a particular model that is easier to make fit than others?

Appreciate your insights.

well i know what i have been forced to learn by doing six coupe engines in a row, including the last lesson about pistons, but that is another issue

me and many have switched to newer heads, almost 1983 till 1985 heads are most used only concern if you keep zeniths and you are a purist is to get the one with the right setup for the mech fuel pump

it surprises me the probelm with the combustion chamber shape as i was not forced to use my beloved angle grinder, what a missed opportunity, always love a session of aluminium butcheries ;-)

i can not give you precise advice on the oil pumps, it was a long time ago in 2011 when we carried all those jobs

i learn by doing, and there is the advice of the blue manuals too

all that said i have not seen a 3003 csl engine in my life, who knows if it has some specific details that make the whole story different

my only valuable advice here was, do not trust always what wally&nelly say it might be good for their business npbut not necesarily the truth ;-)

if you want a more profound investigation on the matter, je sui dessole, i am overburdened these days, would be happy to check some leads from july the first on...

a bientot !

 

[Bert Poliakoff]

Many of the E24 guys are replacing heads with B35 heads as the have larger valves and ports. Problem is without new and proper pistons your compression will drop...so I would think only good on a rebuild with custom pistons such as JE.

Now to open a can of worms as to the oil pump. The shop that rebuilt my engine said the oil pump was not worn but did shim the springs a bit to get more pressure at idle.

 

[m5bb]

so real Torben,

we only needed to cut the cup using an angle grinder

I used a pump from a 87 year M30 but had to cut about half of the cup off of the pickup for the pump to fit the oil pan. Over 8000 miles and no problem.