RHD 3.0 CSI with a 2265 vin number

[Barry.b]

Hi guys I have a mystery on my hands
I have a 1974 3.0csi and it’s vin starts with 2265 .
It seems that should mean it’s LHD
can anyone confirm what was happening in 1973/1974 to make the e9’s RHD for the UK market .
I heard yesterday that they may have been converted ????
If mine was converted by BMW , is it rarer ???
If so how many were converted and where was it done , ie in Germany or the UK ????
I would love to find out more...

 

[HB Chris]

Here is another bit of info from CSL 1973 posted in 2012:

‘The very first trace of a RHD E9 is from October 1970. In the price list from BMW UK (BMW Concessionaires G.B. Ltd, Victoria Road, Portslade, Sussex), they offer a 2800 CS for the UK market.

However, what they offer is the 2800 CS LHD version with an optional conversion to RHD (350 GBP + tax).”

 

[Barry.b]

Here is another bit of info from CSL 1973 posted in 2012:

‘The very first trace of a RHD E9 is from October 1970. In the price list from BMW UK (BMW Concessionaires G.B. Ltd, Victoria Road, Portslade, Sussex), they offer a 2800 CS for the UK market.

However, what they offer is the 2800 CS LHD version with an optional conversion to RHD (350 GBP + tax).”

Thanks again For the info Chris
I am happy to see it was a BMW conversion and not some cut and shut back street job .
If the parts were available for Bmw concessionaires , why were they not built that way by karmann in the first place ???
I.e : RHD dash ,glove box , wiring loom , pedal box , RHD accelerator pedal and floor mounts for same , steering rack , maybe different exhaust down pipes from the manifold, maybe a different subframe and RHD headlights and maybe an extra door mounted rear view mirror and modified bulkhead and sound matting and maybe a longer speedo cable , and new brake piping
I can’t think of anything else
And I wonder what did they do with the left over parts ie all of the LHD parts with zero miles on them ????

 

[day66]

I found this, which may be of interest.

BMW E9 CS Coupés 2017 Market watch - Drive

Market watch: BMW E9 CS Coupés. This month we take a break from the auction floor and have a look at the E9 Coupé with the help of the BMW Car Club’s John Castle and Nick Hull from the club’s CS register.

drive-my.com

The BMW classic site does seem to confirm no RHD CSI was built before 11/73, so the earlier RHD cars must have been converted.

 

[day66]

I think there are a few more bits that would be changed - you’re right about the front subframe, but also servo, exhaust manifolds and power steering piping too I reckon

 

[Barry.b]

I think there are a few more bits that would be changed - you’re right about the front subframe, but also servo, exhaust manifolds and power steering piping too I reckon

That’s a lot of work to be done on a perfect car , at least at that stage they hadn’t started to rust yet ( maybe)

 

[Barry.b]

Here is another bit of info from CSL 1973 posted in 2012:

‘The very first trace of a RHD E9 is from October 1970. In the price list from BMW UK (BMW Concessionaires G.B. Ltd, Victoria Road, Portslade, Sussex), they offer a 2800 CS for the UK market.

However, what they offer is the 2800 CS LHD version with an optional conversion to RHD (350 GBP + tax).”

I just found this online : http://www.dovergarages.altervista.org/poulton close - bmw.html
This is where the magic happened

 

[Wes]

Just posted on the other thread but would be good to get to the bottom of this one.

 

[ABZY]

I just found this online : http://www.dovergarages.altervista.org/poulton close - bmw.html
This is where the magic happened

Yes the conversions in uk were done at Dover on all series 1 cars.

 

[Aussiecsi]

I believe all "early" RHD csi's were converted ...the later RHD csi #435xxxx vin series were delivered direct from the factory in RHD format ( 207 in total )

 

[Barry.b]

Yes the conversions in uk were done at Dover on all series 1 cars.

Here is some more info on Bmw concessionaires:

BMW 2000CS - Forgotten beauty? - Influx

Having been involved with BMW for nigh-on 30 years in one capacity or another (yes, I know this makes me officially old) it’s often a surprise to me how

www.influx.co.uk

Foreign car concessionaires - Motor Sport Magazine

In this last part of our series on concessionaires of foreign cars we deal with American and German Ford, B.M.W.

www.motorsportmagazine.com

One person here says the RHD wooden dash was hand made in England for the conversion .
I hope I’m not boring people by all of this , it’s just that I am on my Christmas hols and have plenty of time for couch surfing ... I should really be out in the garage working on my e9 though , although it’s family time and not garage time

 

[sandhu]

I believe all "early" RHD csi's were converted ...the later RHD csi #435xxxx vin series were delivered direct from the factory in RHD format ( 207 in total )

For The the collector , investor, car trader etc etc

The csi to buy is the series 2?, (over the series 1 ie LHD converted to RHD )
with the vin number starting with 435xxxx, total of 207 factory Made RHD cars !!!

So is the factory RHD CSI series 2, with 435xxxx chassis number more valuable than the series 1 ???

How many of the LHD drive csi where converted to RHD for the Uk market ??

 

[Michael Kaye]

Here is some more info on Bmw concessionaires:

BMW 2000CS - Forgotten beauty? - Influx

Having been involved with BMW for nigh-on 30 years in one capacity or another (yes, I know this makes me officially old) it’s often a surprise to me how

www.influx.co.uk

Foreign car concessionaires - Motor Sport Magazine

In this last part of our series on concessionaires of foreign cars we deal with American and German Ford, B.M.W.

www.motorsportmagazine.com

One person here says the RHD wooden dash was hand made in England for the conversion .
I hope I’m not boring people by all of this , it’s just that I am on my Christmas hols and have plenty of time for couch surfing ... I should really be out in the garage working on my e9 though , although it’s family time and not garage time

I’m told that my vinyl roof on my series 2 RHD CSi was installed my BMW Commissioners, so interesting to find out a bit more about them.

 

[Michael Kaye]

For The the collector , investor, car trader etc etc

The csi to buy is the series 2?, (over the series 1 ie LHD converted to RHD )
with the vin number starting with 435xxxx, total of 207 factory Made RHD cars !!!

So is the factory RHD CSI series 2, with 435xxxx chassis number more valuable than the series 1 ???

How many of the LHD drive csi where converted to RHD for the Uk market ??

I guess it ultimately depends on what someone is looking for in a car.

you know I wanted originality above all so my essentially unrestored CSi is the ultimate in my mind.

Some others would value a perfectly restored car above all else.

Many others, as you know view a RHD CSL as the pinnacle, even though far more were made and survive.

For me I love that the earlier RHD cars were essentially original cars converted with the permission of BMW. I don’t think it negates their value at all.

 

[day66]

Yes, I think it is hard to make a case for one series being more valuable than the other, after all these years I think condition, provenance etc. is key. I prefer the later style wheels, but aside from that detail (and seat stitching?) I think you’re hard pushed to distinguish the earlier and later cars.

I suspect slightly more of the later cars may survive, just because they would have been newer when the model achieved classic status and perhaps more likely to be preserved.

 

[Michael Kaye]

but aside from that detail (and seat stitching?) I think you’re hard pushed to distinguish the earlier and later cars.

plus adjustable steering column

 

[Michael Kaye]

Question. Did the LHD to RHD conversions also have dual brake servos (boosters) as per the factory RHD cars.

if yes then does that mean BMW copied the BMW Commissioners’ approach or did BMW advise on the conversion.

 

[day66]

Yes, twin servos on mine

 

[Barry.b]

Question. Did the LHD to RHD conversions also have dual brake servos (boosters) as per the factory RHD cars.

if yes then does that mean BMW copied the BMW Commissioners’ approach or did BMW advise on the conversion.

Twin servo’s on mine too ( manufactured September 1973 , registered new in uk April 1974)

 

[Barry.b]

Twin servo’s on mine too ( manufactured September 1973 , registered new in uk April 1974)

I wonder in 1973 or early 1974 when you went into a bmw showroom and you walked around as you do looking at all of the new cars and then you sat down with the salesman and agreed to buy a new e9 coupe , you would obviously pay a deposit and sign a bunch of paperwork you would know that it would take some time for “your” car to come in . Let’s say maybe you were told 6 to 8 weeks before your car would be ready .
Did the new owners actually know that they were buying converted LHD cars ????

Just wondering as I can’t imagine I would be happy today if I bought a brand new car and was told oh ya we have to swap it over from LHD before you can have it .