RHD CSL Thoughts

@Wes - hi there ,down under’ = I almost expected this to come…. ;) but it’s ok;)
if you only knew HOW stupied it can get (with BMW), I am sure you wudn’t say so.
1) the dash-board (with wood part showing!) picture on the back side of the brochure -
also showing the Petri (?? is it?) steering wheel is NOT necessarily taken from the same
car as being shown on the front page of that pamphlet.
2) if true, then the wiper arrangement is from a LHD car fitted to a RHD car -
on a press, photo, demo car….. o_O
-
3) @Markos - is that indeed a Petri wheel on that picture ? these cars were NOT
assembled/built with a Petri wheel….did you not already confirm in an earlier msg (being THE
E9 steering wheels expert) that the steering wheel shown in that brochure picture is
in fact an 380 Alpina wheel ?? o_O
>> is there a date on that brochure that you have, more than ,printed II/1973’ ?
 
Last edited:
m5toureg said:
@Wes - hi there ,down under’ = I almost expected this to come…. ;) but it’s ok;)
if you only knew HOW stupied it can get (with BMW), I am sure you wudn’t say so.
1) the dash-board (with wood part showing!) picture on the back side of the brochure -
also showing the Petri (?? is it?) steering wheel is NOT necessarily taken from the same
car as being shown on the front page of that pamphlet.
2) if true, then the wiper arrangement is from a LHD car fitted to a RHD car -
on a press, photo, demo car….. o_O
-
3) @Markos - is that indeed a Petri wheel on that picture ? these cars were NOT
assembled/built with a Petri wheel….did you not already confirm in an earlier msg (being THE
E9 steering wheels expert) that the steering wheel shown in that brochure picture is
in fact an 380 Alpina wheel ?? o_O
Click to expand...
Can’t believe I’m wading into this, but here I go. First, I might be old but with glasses my eyesight is pretty good and I see the steering wheel on the right hand side , especially in the closeup photo posted to verify the RHD point. Second, in the interior shot, you can see the distinctive (inka?) body color. I’d say a fair jury of our peers would accept the car is RHD.
And I’d put my money on Markos’ steering wheel expertise. He’s the Ken Jennings of e9 trivia. Alex, I’ll take Petri Potpourri for $2000.
 
@HonaloochieBoogie - welcome to the circus…. ;)
….if finally and mutually agreed that the car shown in the cover picture is indeed a RHD car….…
…then it is also concluded that BMW indeed fitted a LHD and thereby wrong wiper set up
on a RHD press, photo, show, brochure car…o_Oo_O which also was the actual issue here..;);)
 
Yeah I don’t know where this is going either. It is a 380mm Alpina. The car is RHD. The wipers are on the wrong side. The brochure contains a number of puzzling options that don’t jive with reality. Overall it’s a very cool leaflet. :D

I like RHD CSL’s. I think that they are more special than RHD CSI’s, even if they made less RHD CSI’s. I don’t think they are less worthy than a LHD CSL. Even if they weren’t racing, their existence played a major role in the success of the CSL in motorsport.

At any rate, the car is sold so we can pontificate as long as we want in this thread. :)
 
Oh my……:oops: > just ,let me down easy‘, please…..
-
and by the way…..

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
-
1644172311319.jpeg

-
1644171968138.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Markos said:
Yeah I don’t know where this is going either. It is a 380mm Alpina. The car is RHD. The wipers are on the wrong side. The brochure contains a number of puzzling options that don’t jive with reality. Overall it’s a very cool leaflet. :D

I like RHD CSL’s. I think that they are more special than RHD CSI’s, even if they made less RHD CSI’s. I don’t think they are less worthy than a LHD CSL. Even if they weren’t racing, their existence played a major role in the success of the CSL in motorsport.

At any rate, the car is sold so we can pontificate as long as we want in this thread. :)
Click to expand...
I believe that the wiper arm set up was the same (i.e arm with foil on left) for both LHD and RHD cars. I've an image of my car from new with this set up.

There's some debate as to the effectiveness of the foil, rendering it largely cosmetic.
 
My CSi has a CSL replacement roof ( long story ) and I can say that it is definitely thinner than the standard.
So if a roof constitutes say 10% of the total car then I can add a 10% CSL increase in the value of my CSi. Not to mention the rarity quotient of CSi / CSL hybridness, err hybridity?
 
Gazz said:
My CSi has a CSL replacement roof ( long story ) and I can say that it is definitely thinner than the standard.
So if a roof constitutes say 10% of the total car then I can add a 10% CSL increase in the value of my CSi. Not to mention the rarity quotient of CSi / CSL hybridness, err hybridity?
Click to expand...

Does that mean any CSL that runs CSi donor parts goes down 10%? :D
 
I have just restored a CSL city pack and this is what I have found when I have taken it to it component bits.

  • Soundproofing – light open cell foam stuck to inside of roof and sound deadening pads with big holes in them to the rear wings where the rear windows are
  • Thinner steel work everywhere – likes to rust a bit quicker!
  • Aluminium parts
– Boot -Bonnet- Doors Skins – fuel filler lid – door hinges- and the inside top door strengthen supports and the headlight access hatches(2no)

Bonnet prop – just a bit of round bar not the full csi set up.

  • Suspension
  • Smaller rubber spring locators and rear anti roll bar (not sure these were standard on the CSI?) not sure is the coil springs are a different thickness>

  • Trim
  • Loop pile carpets – lightweight black roof liner – petri steering wheel and the bucket seats – trunk trim – only the trunk floor no lining elsewhere –

  • Running gear – engine and gear box the same as the csi – but limited slip diff – the CSL wheels

  • Bits to make it heavy

  • Power steering – electric windows – and tool kit – glass window – and they have a green tint.

The car in the UK in 1970s was very expensive due to the import duty as the UK was not in the euro zone – I believe that the cost of the CSL was over £6000.00, you could get a jag series 3 v12 roadster was just over £3000.00 – I think that BMW(UK) asked BMW to put in the creature comforts when they placed the order for the cars as they felt that it could be a hard sell at that cost to sell it as a bare bone’s car.

I also believe they did not sell that well…. Because at that time the UK was in a hell hole with interest rates of 10% and inflation at 25%.

I hope this help and contributes……
 
Is a RHD CSL "special"?

Yes, I would argue, despite the heavyweight creature comforts, and near identical performance to a CSI. It's all part of the "lore" of the CSL story and of the origins of the Motorsports department at BMW. A regular E9 doesn't have the same connection to that story. A Batmobile or a carb CSL is even more special, though.

The fact that the car was rushed into production to meet the homologation goals is part of what makes it interesting. And the addition of the creature comforts to make it more appealing to customers is all part of the story. And like other CSLs, sales were slow when new.

The BMW E30 M3 has similar story. In the USA, it was expensive, so BMW NA asked for the car to have a power sunroof, leather seats, power locks and windows, etc. Customers expected those features at the high price point. Over 5,000 were sold, but the last ones in 1991 were tough for dealers to move, due to a recession.

And yet, a low mile E30 M3 is a 200k USD car now, even cars with 150k miles are 50-100k. And LOTS were built. But they are special, due to the unique engine and other features (spoilers and other unique body panels) that were homologated for FIA.
 
craterface said:
Is a RHD CSL "special"?

Yes, I would argue, despite the heavyweight creature comforts, and near identical performance to a CSI. It's all part of the "lore" of the CSL story and of the origins of the Motorsports department at BMW. A regular E9 doesn't have the same connection to that story. A Batmobile or a carb CSL is even more special, though.

The fact that the car was rushed into production to meet the homologation goals is part of what makes it interesting. And the addition of the creature comforts to make it more appealing to customers is all part of the story. And like other CSLs, sales were slow when new.

The BMW E30 M3 has similar story. In the USA, it was expensive, so BMW NA asked for the car to have a power sunroof, leather seats, power locks and windows, etc. Customers expected those features at the high price point. Over 5,000 were sold, but the last ones in 1991 were tough for dealers to move, due to a recession.

And yet, a low mile E30 M3 is a 200k USD car now, even cars with 150k miles are 50-100k. And LOTS were built. But they are special, due to the unique engine and other features (spoilers and other unique body panels) that were homologated for FIA.
Click to expand...
It's an interesting thought. What would a CSL be worth of they had built them with some iteration of mild Grp 2 flairs from the factory and perhaps bumped up the engine displacement or some other engine mods?
 
Agreed! I had a sidebar conversation with @m5toureg but haven’t been able to dive in yet. The RHD CSL participation in motorsport is getting BMW to the homologation finish line. That was and still is important.

Outside of that, badge engineering and minor aero, or a special color is enough to raise values on any car new and old. An example that always resonates with me is the 90’s Mustang LX and the heavier, less performant, more expensive Mustang GT. The LX is a better car, but even today they bring in a smaller price point than the heavier GT.

All at laughable values mind you.

Search for "1993 mustang"

Bring a Trailer Auctions is the best place to buy and sell vintage and classic vehicles - Porsche, BMW, Land Rover, and more.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com

Unlike a Mustang GT and many others, the CSL is still sportier than any CSL.

Adding to that, the CSL is an example where a significant price differential can be calculated by the sum of it’s special parts. Go ahead and try buying factory original good condition parts:

$40K right here:

Petri: $4,000
Scheel Front Seats / Frames / Sliders: $6,000
Rear Seat: $3000
Rear Bumper: $1,000
Hood: $8,000
Trunk: $5,000
Doors: $6,000
Wheels: $4,000
Headliner: Have fun finding one


craterface said:
Is a RHD CSL "special"?

Yes, I would argue, despite the heavyweight creature comforts, and near identical performance to a CSI. It's all part of the "lore" of the CSL story and of the origins of the Motorsports department at BMW. A regular E9 doesn't have the same connection to that story. A Batmobile or a carb CSL is even more special, though.

The fact that the car was rushed into production to meet the homologation goals is part of what makes it interesting. And the addition of the creature comforts to make it more appealing to customers is all part of the story. And like other CSLs, sales were slow when new.

The BMW E30 M3 has similar story. In the USA, it was expensive, so BMW NA asked for the car to have a power sunroof, leather seats, power locks and windows, etc. Customers expected those features at the high price point. Over 5,000 were sold, but the last ones in 1991 were tough for dealers to move, due to a recession.

And yet, a low mile E30 M3 is a 200k USD car now, even cars with 150k miles are 50-100k. And LOTS were built. But they are special, due to the unique engine and other features (spoilers and other unique body panels) that were homologated for FIA.
Click to expand...
 
I was at a meeting once where there was a buddhist monk present and at one point she said, with that beatific expression they annoyingly have - "we are all special". Clearly she was unable to distinguish between CSL and non-CSL owners.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top