Rumbling sound from differential (non-LSD)

JohanE9

JohanE9

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Hi,

I’m in the process of bringing my 3.0 back to life after it has been sitting in the garage for almost 15 years. The car was gone through quite thoroughly before being parked, but unfortunately the long storage has left its marks.

One issue I’m dealing with is a noise coming from the differential (it’s not LSD). When driving in a circle – so with different wheel speeds – I get a clear droning/rumbling sound, very similar to what you’d expect from a bad wheel bearing, but it’s definitely coming from the diff.

What puzzles me is that this noise wasn’t there before the car was parked. Just before storage, the driveshaft was removed to replace the rubber discs and bearing, but otherwise nothing major was done.

Has anyone experienced something similar or have an idea of what might be wrong? Could it be a matter of adjusting play, or is it more likely wear from sitting for so long? Also, how available are replacement parts for these diffs?

Thanks in advance!
Johan
 
I no differential specialist, i just like taking things apart, ; this is what i know:

Standard diffs have a few bearings that are available through Walloth and Neesch. Replacing the side bearings is easy, they can be pulled out without opening the diff.
It does need to have the half shafts dismounted for it. In my side bearing I found a split (broken) ball retaining ring:
20150111_123546.jpg

The bearing of the pinion wheel (the one in the direction of the drive shaft) isn't easy to replace as it requires a precise pre-load setting to be achieved through a crush washer that needs a precise torque and friction measurement in order for the pinion gear to match to the diff perfectly. The workshop manuals ("blue books") contain a detailed procedure for it.

Catalog picture 33/02 - BMW 2,5 CS - 3,0 CSL (E9) - Rear axle | Wallothesch

www.wallothnesch.com www.wallothnesch.com

So, one way would be to replace the side bearings leaving the pinion bearing untouched. Fingers crossed; it solves your problem, then it's an "easy-out".
If it didn't solve the problem, then perhaps the pinion bearings or the gear teeth itself are creating the problem.

Here's my diff, pulled apart. I went for the "fingers crossed" option, keeping the pinion bearings and crush washer.
I also see that i bought a O ring from the dealer - check via RealOEM which bearings and seals parts there are, replace all seals.

20150128_205004.jpg
bearings.
 
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Thanks a lot for your reply @eriknetherlands !! Much appreciated.

My thoughts are that if it were a bearing issue, the noise should be present all the time (is that correct?), but in my case it only appears when driving in a circle, or if I lock the driveshaft and turn one wheel by hand.

I’m also wondering if I might have tampered with (loosened) the crush washer (I assume part #4 in the W&N link) 15 years ago, and then just tightened it back without achieving the correct pre-load.

I’m a bit hesitant to take the diff apart without being certain that replacement parts are available. On the other hand, it probably isn’t a good idea to drive any longer distances without addressing the noise…
 
How's the oil? having too little, or bad oil also can create funny noises. Drain and inspect with a magnet for metallic particle(s). If a bearing fails you normally find debris. Fill untill it overflows the fill hole.
 
I chased a noise in the E24. I was sure it was the diff and had that rebuild / ratio changed. Noise was still there and I was sure it was coming from the rear. I changed the rear axle bearings (what a pain). Noise was still there and turned out to be the FRONT wheel bearings.
Lesson learned: Have someone walk beside the car to try to determine where it is coming from.
 
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I’ve had the car up on a lift where I could lock the driveshaft and turn each wheel individually, and I could hear that the noise is definitely coming from the diff. But that’s a good tip anyway; to be careful and really pinpoint exactly where the sound is coming from.

Regarding whether it makes the noise when turning right or left, I’m pretty sure it happens in both directions, but I’ll double-check. What’s your take on that @Wladek ?
 
Fluid change is relatively easy, may solve your problem, and/or may indicate you have trouble (if metal is found in the old fluid). I would try that first.

If you have a 3:64 dif, there are lots of these around and they are less expensive than other ratios.
 
JohanE9 said:
Regarding whether it makes the noise when turning right or left, I’m pretty sure it happens in both directions, but I’ll double-check. What’s your take on that @Wladek ?
Click to expand...
Depending on the direction while circling weight distribution change & loads on parts, so if the noise would be more audible on one side that might be a clue or mean that something else is the cause.
If no, as was mentioned - diff oil & bearings check.
 
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The sound appears from both sides. I got some help taking the diff apart, and the rumbling noise is definitely coming from the gears. So it looks like I need to either replace the gears or the whole diff.

The first issue is that the gears are really expensive. The second is that I can’t find any detailed instructions on how to reassemble everything with the correct play – since there are plenty of different spacer/shim thicknesses available.

Does anyone know where I could find proper instructions, for example an old workshop manual, showing how to measure and set the correct tolerances when reassembling the diff with shims/spacers? @eriknetherlands you mentioned a "workshop manual/ blue book", is this something that could be found anywhere online?
 
I would post a WTB in the parts for sale section to see if someone here has a manual that they want to part with.

I found my set on eBay several years ago. I see now that someone on eBay is selling a reprint, but i would wait for an original to come up. This one is original, but not clear that it is for a CS. It appears to be all in one book and most (perhaps the later versions?) are in two books or "bands."
 
boonies said:
...... This one is original, but not clear that it is for a CS. I.....
Click to expand...
is not for a coupe. '2500 and 2800' are 4 door identifiers.

i bought an online pdf for 10 euro's somewhere, can't remember. it's a 100% copy of the BMW workshop manual like this:

I have no clue how this file works, as it's build up from all seperate 10kilobyte files, but it has a tree structure that allows you to zoom in on the rear axle, and then select a specific topic. like this:
1759240925214.png


One of them, 33 11 011 , is the drive flange shaft sealing ring replacement, the difficult part of the diff:
1759240726434.png

1759240756195.png

1759240775752.png

1759240790641.png

1759240805523.png

1759240830401.png


1759240846407.png

1759240860236.png

1759240874317.png



simple, isn't it?
 
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Johan- where are you located?

With both half shafts disconnected from the output flanges of the differential and the driveshaft disconnectedyou can spin, rotate the flanges by hand and you will feel whether the bearing is on the left or the right is causing problems. Remember that inside there are parts called spider gears, and if you leave them there for years and years they will corrode and go bad on you.

Why not just ship it to Pete and have him rebuild it or buy a known good used one for cheap. What ratio is yours?

Honestly, I think you answered your own question in the very beginning…


“I’m also wondering if I might have tampered with (loosened) the crush washer (I assume part #4 in the W&N link) 15 years ago, and then just tightened it back without achieving the correct pre-load.”
 
Thanks for your reply @sfdon!

You’re right, my first suspicion was the crush washer, but that seems to be innocent. After removing and opening up the diff, the sound clearly comes from the gears (spider gears). And yes, it has been sitting for many years (~15).

I’m located in Sweden. Would definitely love to buy a good used one cheap :)
Mine is a 3.45 non-LSD.
 
ohhh, I didn't first see the image you uploaded @eriknetherlands . It seems to be exactly the kind of detailed level I'm looking for, but the chapter "33 13 021 Replacement of differential bevel gears" is what I would like to read. If possible to share I would be super happy!

Need to check if I can find this digital manual to buy online.
 
Maybe Tom can find you a close good one?

Or maybe the best deals are from Americans sending in German parts back to Europe?
 
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