Summer in _Phoenix

[JFENG]

Since the population of our planet has more than doubled since I was born, there is double the amount of CO2 just from inhaling and exhaling

I see. I understand your point.

fwiw, this is yet another reason to aggressively pursue technologies that reduce humankind’s impact on the environment. How many of us are old enough to remember Soylent Green.

Even if there was no global warming trend, I would still support the expense of developing & adopting technologies which lower our overall impact on the planet. If nothing else, it seems like the right thing to do given the rate of population growth.

 

[Markos]

I am amused at the politicians who are totally convinced the change is all the result of human activity, yet they live in very large houses with lots of energy consumption, travel in limousines, private jets, etc..

This is no more amusing than politicians on any side of the isle getting caught with their pants down in a sex scandal only after promoting family values or women’s rights. Hypocrisy and politics go hand in hand. Hypocrisy is a fundamental human trait that even the most disciplined zealots fail to overcome. Individual hypocrisy is noise in the context of public policy. Politicians are supposed to represent the people, not themselves. They shape their stated beliefs to match their constituency. It is the job of the people to elect candidates that require little shaping.

What I can say is that “whataboutism” is a formal fallacy referenced as far back as 1614, but has certainly existed for all time. I don’t care if those fighting for climate change are using private jets and limos right now. If they implement the policies that people are fighting for, they will ultimately police themselves.

Your amusement also ignores the quite-relevant security and privacy component of the work that they do (again, on both sides of the isle). I also don’t think that that as a citizen, I want to see screen grabs of immature legislature or confidential material on reddit or wikileaks.

Even if there was no global warming trend, I would still support the expense of developing & adopting technologies which lower our overall impact on the planet. If nothing else, it seems like the right thing to do given the rate of population growth.

I agree. Regardless of the many sources for climate change, it is our best interest to change our behavior and reinvest in better technology. Imagine if solar panel tech matched manufacturing levels of LCD TV’s!

 

[Arde]

The problem is: long term stability does not preclude short term variation that are not good for us humans. A stable mean means little of the standard deviation is too big.

The point about young idealistic kids and their irrational thinking seems irrelevant.

I hope I’m correct to say you simply think human activity has no impact on global climate trends, so you see no reason to change our behavior. I am not as sure about this as you and am willing to make the ‘sacrifice’ just in case folks like you are wrong.

The irony of it all is climate change deniers wouldn’t change their beliefs one iota even if 90% of humankind were wiped out by extreme human induced climate change…. They will simple say, there were other causes. Simply put, There is no way to change the minds people who operate purely on faith. Wintenss the folks who denied the existence of covid-19 as they died of the virus….

Yep, long term stability does not mean we can survive the short term.
Nope, I am not saying human activity has no impact, and actually I always complained about the apparent and immediate effects of human activity visible in Chinese cities atmospheres even as short term effects.

I thought I was pretty clear in opining that limiting growth would be my preferred response because technology based solutions are in my opinion less clear in their outcome. That is what I meant by youngsters being more idealistic as in being more optimistic about technology based solutions, therefore not postulating growth limitations as necessary.

Throwing in Covid into this topic is reasoning by analogy at best, around a highly politicized topic.

 

[Markos]

I thought I was pretty clear in opining that limiting growth would be my preferred response because technology based solutions are in my opinion less clear in their outcome. That is what I meant by youngsters being more idealistic as in being more optimistic about technology based solutions, therefore not postulating growth limitations as necessary.

How does a democratic society implement growth restrictions?

• Population growth
• Economic growth
• Geographic growth

 

[Markos]

Good news! It is 76 and raining (and thundering so I have heard) in Scottsdale today. Clearly all of the climate experts were wrong!

 

[Bert Poliakoff]

It's now 81. A/C in my DD is freezingly cold ! Lightly raining but only 2 thunder "claps" I did get my rain jacket out of moth balls

 

[CSteve]

Bert, current forecast on my phone for you: Next 14 days highs over 100 degrees. Lows in the mid-80s. Chance of rain any of those days - little if any. Are these normal highs and lows? Here in Southwestern PA the next 14 days will be highs in the mid to low 80s. Lows in the mid to low 60s.

But we have already had a six-day early June heatwave with highs in the 90s in Philadelphia. The City of Brotherly Love sharing some hot love.

 

[Markos]

105ish is pretty normal for July/August in phoenix. It generally drops about 25-30 degrees overnight.

Bert, current forecast on my phone for you: Next 14 days highs over 100 degrees. Lows in the mid-80s. Chance of rain any of those days - little if any. Are these normal highs and lows? Here in Southwestern PA the next 14 days will be highs in the mid to low 80s. Lows in the mid to low 60s.

But we have already had a six-day early June heatwave with highs in the 90s in Philadelphia. The City of Brotherly Love sharing some hot love.

 

[Bert Poliakoff]

Only normal if it rains. Otherwise we can expect many 100++ days. Last year was 144 days over 100

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

112F predicted in Portland, OR on Sunday...

 

[dave v. in nc]

City of wilted Roses...damn thats toasty. My brother (we are from NC) went to Lewis and Clark Law in Lake Oswego, and everyone stared and probably giggled as he stood at the bus stop, in the usual fizzy drizzle, the only guy with an umbrella...Thats what I think of, when I think of OR.
It's never been 112 degrees in NC ever, BTW. Our worst, in the flat sandhills was in Fayetteville, at 110.

 

[HonaloochieBoogie]

I used this analogy in a thread a while ago when this subject came up, so forgive me repeating myself. I believe the science on climate change and liken it to heart disease. There are factors you can’t control, like genetic predisposition, but also ones you can control like diet and exercise. I choose to do what I can to extend my life, within reason. Back to climate change specifically, I don’t find the current US environmental focus to be overbearing. Yes, it’s expensive but I believe it’s insurance worth buying.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

...My brother (we are from NC) went to Lewis and Clark Law in Lake Oswego, and everyone stared and probably giggled as he stood at the bus stop, in the usual fizzy drizzle, the only guy with an umbrella...

We have this expression here..."There is no such thing as inclimate weather...only inadequate clothing".

 

[Markos]

112F predicted in Portland, OR on Sunday...

View attachment 121892

Yikes that is deadly! I don’t have to explain this to @Dick Steinkamp, but many people in the PNW (myself included) have no AC. It is an “option” for new homes. I know portland is generally warmer so hopefully that is not the case.

I actually ordered one of those units with the hose that goes in the window yesterday…

 

[Nicad]

Only normal if it rains. Otherwise we can expect many 100++ days. Last year was 144 days over 100

You are tough to live there. I couldn't deal with that. I grew up in Quebec, and many don't want to deal with that either, but I'd take minus 25C over 103f any day.

 

[lip277]

Several years ago, I installed a heat pump in my house - originally to save $$ on my winter propane heat bill... A side benefit of that was that I gained the ability to cool in the summer. That was about 10 years ago.

In my new home, I had to replace the furnace (it was original to the 25 year old house and failing, this time we are on gas). I did that and ALSO installed a heat pump. Not so much for the $$ savings (the reduction in gas cost is marginal compared to what I had for propane) - but I wanted the cooling we would also get in the summer. And - THIS WEEK, I am loving it. LOL

I will also be installing a heat pump out in my shop (for the loft). The shop has a furnace already and I keep the main area of the shop at ~58/60F in the winter. The HP there will let me keep the loft warmer in the winter and then also cool it in the summer (as it gets kind of toasty this time of year there). Should turn out pretty nice.... when it is all finished.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

I actually ordered one of those units with the hose that goes in the window yesterday…

There are (or have been) only 5-6 hot days a year here (high 80s low 90s) but without the crippling humidity like in the SE and midwest, and it generally cools off quickly at night. Our house is pretty well insulated and the few hot days don't bother us (much).

What do bother us are the ever more frequent fires on the west coast from California to BC. I was also going to buy a couple of those portable air conditioners to have in reserve in case the fires occur again this year. The smoke hangs in the air for days/weeks and is not much fun. Part of my research was this video...

I decided they probably wouldn't do much to make the house even semi comfortable. Maybe one room. If the fires continue, we'll go with some sort of whole house system.

 

[CSteve]

Heat pumps have come a long was since we built our 1600 sq ft house 43 years ago. Here in SE PA we needed a Morso Wood Stove as backup. Kept us toasty over those 10 degree below! zero nights of yesteryear. Now we are on our third unit, a Bosch with a fancy thermostat that we could connect to the internet with. Never going to happen. But it is programmable and the heat pump works with whisper quiet German efficiency. We are passive solar, heavy on the insulation, no attic or basement, a south facing wall of new Pella windows.

For this whole electric house with well and septic we paid the local utility an average of $134.00 a month to run the whole house. We are cozy/cool. Ten years ago it was $114.00 a month. Why can't builders copy some of our tricks. And we did it 43 years ago.

 

[Markos]

What do bother us are the ever more frequent fires on the west coast from California to BC. I was also going to buy a couple of those portable air conditioners to have in reserve in case the fires occur again this year. The smoke hangs in the air for days/weeks and is not much fun. Part of my research was this video...

Yes the July/August smoke can be killer. The last couple of years I have been running a box fan with a high filtration furnace filter. This is of course with all windows closed.

Normally we can see Puget Sound and the Olympic mountains from this spot.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

Yes the July/August smoke can be killer. The last couple of years I have been running a box fan with a high filtration furnace filter. This is of course with all windows closed.

We do the same. MERV 13 filter on the box fan and in the furnace with the recirculating fan running. Helps with the smoke, but no fun when it's hot and all the windows are closed.