Notice the slider handle (now missing) and side seams/stitching appear totally different.
She’s now wearing Vredestein Sprint Classics - I can’t read a date code in my pics.
Taiga Batmobile at RM Amelia Island
- Thread starter craterface
- Start date
She’s now wearing Vredestein Sprint Classics - I can’t read a date code in my pics.
Hi Scott,
I only made my comments to try and make people aware this car was in no way indicative of what a good CSL is and in turn the overly enthusiastic words that have been written about it.
I see somebody above mentions my seeing it years ago - that is incorrect, I had it inspected in the UK all those years ago, I was at the auction on Saturday and inspected the car for three different people that asked me to look at it who were interested in the car and in fact two senior members of RM team also asked my thoughts, as they often do. I was also the one that informed our mutual friend Scott H about the inner fenders
I hate to be negative, but you have asked, so I will explain why it was a correct price for "that" Batmobile - inner fenders lots of filler starting now to crack and lift at the seams, what should be sharp metal lines and clear spot welds have been smoothed over with seam sealer or filler in the restoration, hiding all the places we know are weak. Shut lines all over the place all around the car terrible, something a simple as the drivers door had a gap at the front bottom of door where you could almost see into the car and a 3/4 inch out of line at the bottom rear of door, inconsistent gaps all around. In fact just look at the door picture above.
Wrong kidney, not CSL -engine stamping, inconsistent with factory and shows grinding down of another number - Rear wing is a series one Bat and incorrect for a series 2 bat - seats are not correct - roof has been replaced at some time and is now showing where car was cut.
I will stop here, but hopefully you get the idea.
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Apologies, Pete, for inferring you were referring to the car’s condition from a previous encounter. I wish we had a chance to meet at the show.
I will second many of your observations - some of which can be seen in my various pictures (since I was no longer a bidder, I didn’t focus on photographing specific flaws - I truly just wanted to capture it for posterity as it’s still my “dream” configuration).
I will second many of your observations - some of which can be seen in my various pictures (since I was no longer a bidder, I didn’t focus on photographing specific flaws - I truly just wanted to capture it for posterity as it’s still my “dream” configuration).
Hi Tightbox,
Not worries at all, apolgese not needed, I just wanted to be clear - yes, would have been great to say hello.
It's so hard with these events, we could have been within a few feet of each other, but unless we know what we look like, just doesn't happen. In fact, that is exactly how I met Craterface a few years ago at Amelia
I wish you well in your hunt, its not easy, but so worth the wait and if I can help with advice in the future, always happy to do so.
Bonhams Cars : The 49th of only 57 examples built,1975 BMW 3.0 CSL Batmobile Chassis no. 4355049 Engine no. 4355049
Amazing to think that one of today’s most desirable and respected car manufacturers was on the brink of bankruptcy in the late 1950s which nearly led to the consumption of BMW by Mercedes-Benz. Indeed had it not have been for the financial intervention of financiers Herbert and Harald Quandt...
Found this car (Bat series 2 number 49), sold at Bonhams for 150k (I had 160 in my head) all in back in 2009. Same wonky wing mounting and bad trunk panel fit. All the filler on the inner fenders had yet to declare itself.
@BMWPete, Perhaps four star classics was the buyer at the auction, and then brought the car to the UK? in GBP it was probably cheap.
This recent sale of the same car at 291k is a 100K discount off market, IMO, but now we know it is all based on the messy condition. Another 100k and a year with Mario could put it right.
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I find it disappointing that professional and even highly regarded shops are letting things like this leave the with the customer. I can’t blame the owners. They may not know better, have the eye for certain parts or fitments. The folks running the shop do, or at least should.
I regularly ask myself how a collection of hobbyists can know so much more than most restoration specialists. I start to tell myself “well, we are focusing one one car”
and perhaps I am being too harsh. That is not the case with you @BMW Pete, so I don’t think that it is unreasonable for a BMW-focused shop to get the parts, placement, and period right.
Craftsmanship is another ball of wax that definitely seems to be volatile even for the best shops around. Other factors such as cost, time, etc play into that. We rarely know the full story behind a restoration.
I talked to a painter who has worked on several local e9’s. I said to him: “I don’t need a show quality paint job”. He told me “I only do show quality paint jobs.”. I responded that I appreciate his approach and I am an unlikely customer. I think that if the same expectation is set in metal work, shops wouldn’t put their name behind shoddy workmanship. I look at that door gap above, and would be embarrassed to wrap up my project with fitment like that, even as an amateur hobbyist.
I regularly ask myself how a collection of hobbyists can know so much more than most restoration specialists. I start to tell myself “well, we are focusing one one car”
and perhaps I am being too harsh. That is not the case with you @BMW Pete, so I don’t think that it is unreasonable for a BMW-focused shop to get the parts, placement, and period right.
Craftsmanship is another ball of wax that definitely seems to be volatile even for the best shops around. Other factors such as cost, time, etc play into that. We rarely know the full story behind a restoration.
I talked to a painter who has worked on several local e9’s. I said to him: “I don’t need a show quality paint job”. He told me “I only do show quality paint jobs.”. I responded that I appreciate his approach and I am an unlikely customer. I think that if the same expectation is set in metal work, shops wouldn’t put their name behind shoddy workmanship. I look at that door gap above, and would be embarrassed to wrap up my project with fitment like that, even as an amateur hobbyist.
"No Expense Spared" on one hand is the same as "We made alot of money working on this car" on the other......
@Markos - Back in 2004 or 2005, the restoration of my Mustang was starting. I had found a shop locally that specializes in Mustangs and such.
When it came down to the nitty gritty of sorting out the details of my car - while I knew I wanted the car to be in good shape - I also knew that I was going to 'drive' it and thus didn't want to spend $$ on a paint job that had to be perfect. VERY nice was ok for me - LOL. Well, the shop owner had to reorient my perspective.... He asked where he should put the dents in and how much rust he should leave.... It wouldn't save me any $$ but it would get me what I thought I wanted. LOL
Lets say that I still have that trailer queen car in my garage today - LOL... Time flies. Now, if I can just get that Coupe up here!!! LOL
(I wish I still had the 2002... Oh well.....)
@Markos - Back in 2004 or 2005, the restoration of my Mustang was starting. I had found a shop locally that specializes in Mustangs and such.
When it came down to the nitty gritty of sorting out the details of my car - while I knew I wanted the car to be in good shape - I also knew that I was going to 'drive' it and thus didn't want to spend $$ on a paint job that had to be perfect. VERY nice was ok for me - LOL. Well, the shop owner had to reorient my perspective.... He asked where he should put the dents in and how much rust he should leave.... It wouldn't save me any $$ but it would get me what I thought I wanted. LOL
Lets say that I still have that trailer queen car in my garage today - LOL... Time flies. Now, if I can just get that Coupe up here!!! LOL
(I wish I still had the 2002... Oh well.....)
Looks like an RP restoration.
Robert, i believe he is referring to Ron Perry.
Thanks Scott.
Is that good?
RP
Is that good?
RP
No
Why is the stance of this car look like it's going uphill?Same car. Has that hang dog looking rear ride height. They were supposedly asking 250k a while back..
1975 BMW 3.0 CSL - The Werk Shop
Private treaty sale from The Werk Shop This car is number 49 of the 57 second series “Batmobiles” made, chassis numbers 4355001-4355057, of which not more than a third are believed to have survived to date. Only four left the factory in the rare Day-Glo Taiga color. Given such rarity and the...www.thewerkshop.com
Looking over the earlier auction pics @craterface posted, I’m now questioning what i was told about recent paintwork.
I assumed the askew trunk/door were the result of a recent touch up respray and less than careful reassembly. Now that I see the 2009 auction pictures, I can see they were never aligned properly during that “resto.”
@HB Chris - Doesn’t look like this RP “resto” is the Amelia tiaga BAT:
v3llum.com
I assumed the askew trunk/door were the result of a recent touch up respray and less than careful reassembly. Now that I see the 2009 auction pictures, I can see they were never aligned properly during that “resto.”
@HB Chris - Doesn’t look like this RP “resto” is the Amelia tiaga BAT:
Saving The BMW 3.0 CSL Batmobile
One BMW that has always been elevated above all others, is the E9-chassis 3.0 CSL aka "The Batmobile".
v3llum.com
Saving The BMW 3.0 CSL Batmobile
One BMW that has always been elevated above all others, is the E9-chassis 3.0 CSL aka "The Batmobile".
v3llum.com
This was restored by RP…
the car in this thread .. number 049
as far as I know was not restored by RP
They just share door, trunk and many other alignment issues.
no is too polite of a word for that RP ... after seeing one of his cars at Amelia a few years ago, i would say HELL NO
Thanks, Scott.
I'll go back to trying to make the Mega-squirt work so I can drive my car and see what other problems I might have with it.
Good to be, not-RP
Back to the subject....
RP
I'll go back to trying to make the Mega-squirt work so I can drive my car and see what other problems I might have with it.
Good to be, not-RP
Back to the subject....
RP