Webers and an ECU
- Thread starter Nicad
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Mike Goble
Well-Known Member
Since the carburetors and distributor are two separate systems, there's no real reason you couldn't do it. Crank triggered ignition systems are fairly common on carbureted race cars.
Polariscsl
Well-Known Member
Yes - I could run my omex mapped ignition as wasted spark. I chose to run the dizzy to keep it looking period. Wasted spark would gain a few ponies though.
Mapped ignition is the single best mod you can make to a carb'd engine. My new lump starts and idles at 1000rpm from cold with no spits and coughs at all - the scatter spark system artificially over advances to hold the idle high at low temps.
I'm running 270bhp with 246ftlbs and a perfectly smooth idle - the ignition goes a long way to helping this despite 11mm of lift at the valve from my cam.
Mapped ignition is the single best mod you can make to a carb'd engine. My new lump starts and idles at 1000rpm from cold with no spits and coughs at all - the scatter spark system artificially over advances to hold the idle high at low temps.
I'm running 270bhp with 246ftlbs and a perfectly smooth idle - the ignition goes a long way to helping this despite 11mm of lift at the valve from my cam.
jamesw
Well-Known Member
I think for a period correct look, you could keep your distributor system and replace it w/ one of the 123ignition.nl "Tune" units. It lets you set your own ignition/timing maps.
I'm running their "6" unit on my CS and it is fantastic.
HTH
James
I'm running their "6" unit on my CS and it is fantastic.
HTH
James
Interesting options. I really don't know very much about ignition or carb tuning in general. Since I am going to run an Electric pusher fan and have an Alpina intake and headers, it won't look all that stock anyway. I would think an expert could get a better tune on the car with a programmable ignition curve than a distributor. So many variables.
How bout ITB Megasquirt EFI with wasted spark?
Heaven on earth!
Heaven on earth!
DerSchwede
Well-Known Member
Look in the E3 section in this forum:
Magnus 2800 with S38B38, 3x50DCO and upgraded modern ignition = 372 hp.
Magnus 2800 with S38B38, 3x50DCO and upgraded modern ignition = 372 hp.
Sounds nice, what is the advantage of wasted spark?
Yes, I just looked through the various youtube videos of this car in action. Impressive how well this car runs.
1. You don't need a sensor to determine Cam position (which tells you whether the cylinder is at TDC of the compression stroke or exhaust stroke). With wasted spark they it fires at both, so it doesn't matter.
2. You need only a 3 coil pack instead of a 6 coil pack (or individual coils).
Note, that if you use an ECU like megasquirt you will also need to add a 60-2 tooth wheel and VR sensor in place of the harmonic dampener (to know where TDC is), a second temperature sensor (so ECU will know when to retard or advance spark depending on temps - usually advancing spark when cold and retarding on overheating), some sort of load sensor (typically a MAP sensor - that i assume could work off the carb vacuum ports).
The ECU can drive the existing single coil with distributor (with it's weights fixed in place). If using a wasted spark coil (and of course no distributor) you would also need a coil pack driver, as the output from MS is not equipped with coil driver trasnsistors (only the logic level signals for spark).
The MS ECU would allow you to control your pusher fan based on coolant temperatures with that second sensor as well.
Ditch the carbs?
Too late, I turned them in to the metal recyclers. Aluminum fetches a good dollar these days!!
No , I am pretty shallow, I want to keep the Webers and Airbox because they look so cool and I already own them. How happy are you with yours Steve?
Now that I have them tuned to my liking I love them. I too am shallow, and the intake noise when digging into the throttle gets me everytime. The trade off is of course atrocious fuel milage. But they really make these motors sing.
PhilipTheBavarian
New Member
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Im running Megajolt/Ford EDIS (wasted spark) on my 72 Bavaria with duel weber 32/36 carbs. I love this setup if you dont mind the out of period look. The Megajolt program is very user friendly and installation is simple once you have your 36-1 trigger wheel/VR sensor installed. This is also a relatively cost effective setup because most of your parts can be sourced from the junkyard (VR sensor, EDIS module, coils and coilbase).
This video shows my setup. The carbs were out of tune so she is runnig rather rough in the film. Now that everything is dialed in shes smooth as butter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr83gy7wKmo
This video shows my setup. The carbs were out of tune so she is runnig rather rough in the film. Now that everything is dialed in shes smooth as butter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr83gy7wKmo
No, I am going to drive it for a while before putting it on the dyno again. My goal was to get it to start easily, idle smoothly, accelerate WOT and cruise within acceptable AFR's and performance - a difficult goal given the whole design is one big compromise.
Very neat setup there Philip. It seems the Bavaria owners seem to be the more experimental ones.
Was your Pulley a custom built item or is that off the shelf too? Did you do all the tuning to get it right? Was it on a Dyno?
PhilipTheBavarian
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The 36-1 trigger wheel was from diyautotune.com, it did required some modification to fit properly. Millersmule.com can custom make you a bolt on trigger wheel for the right price. I modified a sensor mount from a 1990 535i to accept the ford style VR sensor. Its probably easier to just get Megasquirt to work with the factory b35 60-2 wheel and sensor, but in my case going the Megajolt route was cheaper, but required some custom work.
I did all the tuning myself (great learning experience), but I should get it to the dyno eventually to truly dial it in. As many people will tell you the butt dyno is not very accurate;-)
BTW- The default megajolt ignition map worked surprisingly well on the m30, I also found a few m10 maps that worked well.
I did all the tuning myself (great learning experience), but I should get it to the dyno eventually to truly dial it in. As many people will tell you the butt dyno is not very accurate;-)
BTW- The default megajolt ignition map worked surprisingly well on the m30, I also found a few m10 maps that worked well.
couttsdesign
Member
This whole topic has caught my attention, especially the system quoted above. James, can you tell us a bit more about your 123ignition setup (which carbs, installation difficulty, drivability, efficiency???). A video would be sweet if you have one.