What would you consider.....

[acat2002]

Hmmm, this thread may morph into an entire other discussion regarding the value of certain pre-owned cars over a longer time span.....that's okay, b/c that is most definately part of the selection process.

An e39 M5 would be a good contender IMO, but I try to stick w/ low mileage cars under 3 years old for my daily driver. The model has worked well for me in the past in terms of the most bang for you long-term dollar.

IMO, a 3-year old car w/ under 30k miles typically retains a good factory warranty and proabbly hasn't seen much mis-use or neglect. The steepest part of the depreciation curve is the first three years, followed by when the car turns 100k. So a nice, pre-owned example of a $70,000 car usually be had for between $35-$45k depending on its scarcity/desirability. So say, your able to snag a nice one for $40k with say 25k miles. You've got roughly 1.5 years remaining on most factory warranties, plus at least five years of normal driving use before you turn the car over 100,000. This is of course assuming you don't buy a Range Rover or similar and need to hemmorhage cash to keep it operating. Key is you've got to find a solid, reliable lux car.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love the smell of a brand new car, but I'd rather save $25-$30k and drive a superior car/SUV. So, for me, a two to three year old high-end car is the way to go. Over the past 8 years the ownership cost of my ML55 has averaged out way less than if I had ran through two or three Jeep Cherokees, or other sh@tbox American cars!

 

[craterface]

While I was busy procrastinating, I found you a new 2008 Imola Yellow 340 hp S4 sedan at AUdi of Manhattan. I found it in autotrader. Ripping V8, and they will give you the 6 year CPO warranty.

 

[x_atlas0]

Hmmm, this thread may morph into an entire other discussion regarding the value of certain pre-owned cars over a longer time span.....that's okay, b/c that is most definately part of the selection process.

An e39 M5 would be a good contender IMO, but I try to stick w/ low mileage cars under 3 years old for my daily driver. The model has worked well for me in the past in terms of the most bang for you long-term dollar.

IMO, a 3-year old car w/ under 30k miles typically retains a good factory warranty and proabbly hasn't seen much mis-use or neglect. The steepest part of the depreciation curve is the first three years, followed by when the car turns 100k. So a nice, pre-owned example of a $70,000 car usually be had for between $35-$45k depending on its scarcity/desirability. So say, your able to snag a nice one for $40k with say 25k miles. You've got roughly 1.5 years remaining on most factory warranties, plus at least five years of normal driving use before you turn the car over 100,000. This is of course assuming you don't buy a Range Rover or similar and need to hemmorhage cash to keep it operating. Key is you've got to find a solid, reliable lux car.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love the smell of a brand new car, but I'd rather save $25-$30k and drive a superior car/SUV. So, for me, a two to three year old high-end car is the way to go. Over the past 8 years the ownership cost of my ML55 has averaged out way less than if I had ran through two or three Jeep Cherokees, or other sh@tbox American cars!

That's how my Dad got the E34 540, originally. He snagged it with 12k miles about 1 year after it was new for ~20k. (MSRP was ~50k)

 

[duane_sword]

http://www.brighamgillmotorcars.com/used/Audi/2007-Audi-RS+4-78755c777f0000010143b0feb4ea9c84.htm#

No affiliation. But I am still trying to decide upon a new S5 or a low-mileage (with service records, if not owner communication) RS4.

 

[acat2002]

http://www.brighamgillmotorcars.com/used/Audi/2007-Audi-RS+4-78755c777f0000010143b0feb4ea9c84.htm#

No affiliation. But I am still trying to decide upon a new S5 or a low-mileage (with service records, if not owner communication) RS4.

That's a tough call between the two.
Driving impressions and the feel of the interior dimensions may prove to be a tipping point for you. Depending what your tolerance for out-of-pocket repair bills may be, I'd vote for the RS4 for scarcity and performance.
Regardless, it's a no-brainer for me that both Audis are superior in styling and less commonplace compared to the BMWs.

I may have to drive an RS4 for myself at some point.

 

[David]

I spent a bit of time reading a Running Costs thread on the M5 board. Sounds like they are known for the following:

1. They burn oil (upwards of a quart every 1500 miles) and BMW has very specific instructions on what oil to use. Dealers are charging upwards of $400 for an oil change.
2. Tires are $1200-$1500 every 25k miles.
3. Brakes are $400 a corner.
4. Something about carbon build up which prevents passing emissions in California. Fix appears to be possible with a new chip, or an expensive repair (didnt see a price).
5. Valves look to be an occasional issue (VANOS). Repairs are common and can run $5k.

This is a very unscientific study of course, but these 5 threads were fairly common and generally agreed upon in the board. Of course, driving style drives the frequency of these issues so experiences had a fair bit of variation.

Bottom line, the board says to be prepared for an occasional $5k repair. Sounds pretty spendy to me. Guess Ill keep looking.....

Here is the thread for those interested:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e3...n/56642-m5-common-problems-running-costs.html

 

[David]

What was the consensus on the BMW years for the Range Rover ?

 

[Bennett]

Don't laugh. Hyundai Genesis 4.6L. $38K fully loaded. More gizmos than the new MBZ. In Korea it is badged as the "Genesis", not a Hyundai. It is Hyundai's version of the Lexus. While not a Range Rover or Audi S5 in terms of styling, it offers the most bang for the buck out there. They are becoming very popular here in L.A.

 

[acat2002]

Don't laugh. Hyundai Genesis 4.6L. $38K fully loaded. More gizmos than the new MBZ. In Korea it is badged as the "Genesis", not a Hyundai. It is Hyundai's version of the Lexus. While not a Range Rover or Audi S5 in terms of styling, it offers the most bang for the buck out there. They are becoming very popular here in L.A.

I've seen the Genesis on the road. I have to say, it's not a bad effort in terms of styling (considering the maker), and I hear performance and luxury are very comparable to a Lexus. If you'r looking for a solid luxury sedan on a budget, I bet this is a great car. So kudos to Hyundai.

However, no self-respecting "car guy" will drive a Lexus or a Hyundai.....myself included.

 

[acat2002]

What was the consensus on the BMW years for the Range Rover ?

Model years 2003-2004, or just one year for BMW?
I drive one and liked it, but that's different than "owning" one and having the service department on speed dial. All the interior switches and gadgets were signature BMW stuff, which doesn't improve or detract from the RR IMO, but the feel of the RR interior for the current years is really cheap-feeling (considering how much they cost).

 

[Bennett]

Agree on the fact that car guys don't drive a Hyundai or Lexus - but are there any cars sold now that are under $100K that qualify as such? Porsche? Mercedes S class? BMW - M cars? Other than that, they are all cookie cutter, computer controlled nothings. They may be reliable, but they stir no emotion, except for sadness on writing the check at the time of purchase.

Then again, I guess that was the point of this whole thread.

 

[pj]

Hey all,
I was at the track on monday there was a e39 m5 that was hustlling around , I was instructing in a new z06 and it took us a couple of laps to catch him.I was impressed.
so my suggestions
Any m5
any amg including the ml55amg
lexus isf
v8 m3
335i (just a tick slower than the m3)
e36 m3 sedan with a blower
dinans own m5 was for sale recently for 60+k only had 650 horses

 

[David]

Model years 2003-2004, or just one year for BMW?
I drive one and liked it, but that's different than "owning" one and having the service department on speed dial. All the interior switches and gadgets were signature BMW stuff, which doesn't improve or detract from the RR IMO, but the feel of the RR interior for the current years is really cheap-feeling (considering how much they cost).

Any of the RRs when BMW was the steward. The hypothesis is that these were better manufactured (re, lower running costs) than when Ford was building them. Not sure if thats the case--guess Ill have to head over to the RR boards.

I do find it interesting that faced with the same problem, we are looking at similar options.

I'm disappointed that the E39Ms appear to have running costs that are out of my budget. Im already dropping $5k (or more) a year in the E9. I dont need another car that runs me the same.

 

[x_atlas0]

Any of the RRs when BMW was the steward. The hypothesis is that these were better manufactured (re, lower running costs) than when Ford was building them. Not sure if thats the case--guess Ill have to head over to the RR boards.

I do find it interesting that faced with the same problem, we are looking at similar options.

I'm disappointed that the E39Ms appear to have running costs that are out of my budget. Im already dropping $5k (or more) a year in the E9. I dont need another car that runs me the same.

I don't really see any modern BMW escaping those kinds of costs after the warranty expires. The cars are too complicated to avoid that sort of problem, and the service tools are now an active repair component, rather than purely a diagnostic tool. Those devices are usually far outside the budget of the shadetree mechanic.

Then, there's the additional, non-repairable components, or even components that have been rendered non-repairable. Items like VANOS units have a definite service life, and the parts are not sold to truly fix them, only replacement units are sold. Other devices, like alternators, starters, transmissions, differentials, and other multi-part devices, are now only sold as complete units with no internal parts available. So, now, if you have a bad 2nd gear synchro, your only option is a complete transmission replacement, as rebuilds are no longer even offered.

These two factors combined mean modern cars (2000+, or OBD-II) have a fairly set lifespan beyond which the car will cost a good bit to keep running, far more than a previous model, as you can't really fix a problem in the newer cars, only replace the problem. The E39 M5 is a classic case of this, as compared to the E34 M5, the upkeep costs are much higher. If the parts were available to rebuild a trans, break down a VANOS unit, or rebuild an alternator, the parts costs would be much lower, albeit at the expense of an increased time requirement.

 

[gkb]

Random thoughts

I agree with the idea of letting someone else take the depreciation hit. Take a look at what the new M6s do after 2-3 yrs; like $15-$20K depreciation per year.

I would not touch a Land Rover - except perhaps a diesel (not available in US) or one > 20 yrs old. Owned a Discovery after BMW bought LR - much more expensive to maintain than BMW. Repeated failure of electronics (Lucas?) and other parts (power steering hoses). One of the few cars I was glad to sell - POS. LR depreciation is also like a stone.

A year ago bought a new 335xi e92 coupe (6 spd) for my wife - I think the lines (esp with shadowline trim) are nicer than the Audi A5 but both are nice. I only bought it new because I could not find any used 6 spds (these are only 10% of market and tend to be purchased and kept by car nuts). Believe me it hurt to pay new car price (although only $500 over invoice) but we will keep it a long time (kept our 1991 e30 iX for 20 yrs). The Audi RS4 is nice but big bucks even over the S4.

Except for the run-flats the BMW e92 is a hoot with the twin turbos. No problems with oil temp (but we do not track it). There always is a longevity question with turbos, but we will see. Only 330 HP, but sub 5 sec 0-60. You could get a used one for under $40K. High pressure fuel pump is apparently an issue with a small fraction, not ours (yet).

I am presently considering an e86 M Coupe for my daily driver (yrs 2006-2008 with most 2007, only about 1800 made for US for all years) - mid $30Ks, 330 HP, sub 5 sec 0-60, great handling and quite reliable. Obviously only two seats, but basically a car with 20K miles for new Honda Accord EX-L money and no comparison on the fun factor.

 

[David]

$5k a year after Ive bought it is just amazing. Thats about $400 a month, on top of the cost of the car. A $30k "down payment" and then a $400 a month payment to keep it running ? That cant be right...

Can you get a warranty on a used M5 with say 50k miles, for less than $5k a year ? If not I just dont see how this is a wise move, for me.

 

[atan888]

Have you tried an 04 or later E55? The wagons are also uber rare.

 

[bimmerboy73]

a little OT but...

May not be a realistic option, but if we were on the other side of the atlantic, my vote would be the 3.2l Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon. I think it only puts down 260hp or so but styling wise... wow. I have a cousin in germany who has one and he swears by it. Dont know if its plagued by the traditional Italian (un)reliability issues though. If so, i havent heard any complaints yet. Its one of the few cars that i've seen that is equally stunning across all the platforms it offers (the little hatch/coupe would be great for a city dweller). Fairly common in Italy (obviously), but what a head turner it would be if you could manage importing one to the US... Ah, to dream...

http://www.alfaromeo.com/com/cmsen/homepage/pages/home.aspx?outputXml=true&CustomResponse=WebCrawler

Richard

 

[x_atlas0]

$5k a year after Ive bought it is just amazing. Thats about $400 a month, on top of the cost of the car. A $30k "down payment" and then a $400 a month payment to keep it running ? That cant be right...

Can you get a warranty on a used M5 with say 50k miles, for less than $5k a year ? If not I just dont see how this is a wise move, for me.

Pretty much every aftermarket warranty company I have heard of is a scam, or doesn't cover what it says it covers.

Plus, it isn't like you will have a 5k failure every year, just that it could happen at any time. The big-ticket items are the trans, clutch, VANOS, and the carbon build up. You will still have an average running cost of about 1k/year for consumables, not including tires.

 

[David]

I spent some time looking on the Range Rover boards. It's interesting that everyone loves their RR/LR but most admit they are very spendy to maintain. Still looking.

I know this is an International board so I dont know if this will translate, but I really want to buy a US car. Our economy is in the toilet and I sure would like to be patriotic, but there just isnt much to choose from...