Windows only work when door open

m5bb

m5bb

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Basically,

I have a friend with a 74CS. It's a very original car but is different than my 72CS. I tried to find this relay on the schematic with out any luck.

The windows won't go down unless you open the door.
Then if you press on or wiggle the most forward black relay next to the battery they will work.
Relay Bosch #13563963.
I have done some Google searching for this number and have not found a replacement.
I also feel there is probably a grounding issue and was hoping someone would point me to the grounding point for the window motors or offer advice on a solution?

Thanks,
Gary
 
m5bb said:
Basically,

I have a friend with a 74CS. It's a very original car but is different than my 72CS. I tried to find this relay on the schematic with out any luck.

The windows won't go down unless you open the door.
Then if you press on or wiggle the most forward black relay next to the battery they will work.
Relay Bosch #13563963.
I have done some Google searching for this number and have not found a replacement.
I also feel there is probably a grounding issue and was hoping someone would point me to the grounding point for the window motors or offer advice on a solution?

Thanks,
Gary
Click to expand...

hi gary, will the window go up from the bottom position when the door is closed ?
 
The relay near the battery has no role in window operation so something is amiss. They are back to front, horn, hi beam, lo beam. Windows should work when driver door is opened, you can hear the click from the relay by hood release handle, and when ignition is turned on.
 
HB Chris said:
The relay near the battery has no role in window operation so something is amiss. They are back to front, horn, hi beam, lo beam. Windows should work when driver door is opened, you can hear the click from the relay by hood release handle, and when ignition is turned on.
Click to expand...

Yes, I couldn't find any relation between the relay and windows.

The windows ONLY work when the door is open.

Do you know where the grounding point is?
I'll also check the relay now that I know where it is.

Thanks Chris.
 
Some experience- On the 74's apparently that year only?, there is a safety measure that operates the windows when the doors are open-but obviously not only when they are open. It seems you can find this circuit in the schematics if you can read them, which I have allot of difficulty with. My point is that the mis-operation of your windows may have nothing to do with them working when the door is open, so maybe start with the basics-the breaker switches may be the issue-to the right of the steering column- that is where I had some issues-

Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
Peter Coomaraswamy said:
Some experience- On the 74's apparently that year only?, there is a safety measure that operates the windows when the doors are open-but obviously not only when they are open. It seems you can find this circuit in the schematics if you can read them, which I have allot of difficulty with. My point is that the mis-operation of your windows may have nothing to do with them working when the door is open, so maybe start with the basics-the breaker switches may be the issue-to the right of the steering column- that is where I had some issues-

Sorry I can't be of more help.
Click to expand...

Good info Peter and something I did not know. I will work on that as well.
Yes, the schematics can be a little challenging especially when you realize there is one schematic I have and I think that is for a 2800 so who knows how many changes have taken place by 74?
Thanks
 
Gary I am emailing you the 74 wiring diagrams, perhaps they will help.

m5bb said:
Good info Peter and something I did not know. I will work on that as well.
Yes, the schematics can be a little challenging especially when you realize there is one schematic I have and I think that is for a 2800 so who knows how many changes have taken place by 74?
Thanks
Click to expand...
 
In the '74s, one of which I have, the interior light switches on the left and right door jambs are in the window circuit. Make sure the contacts are clean and the ground connection is being made OK. IIRC, (I will check on this tomorrow) there are two relays involved in the window circuit, one of which is operated by the either of the door light switches...if one relay is bad, the windows won't work unless the door is opened. I know one of the relays is in the group located under the dash accessible through the left glove compartment...can't remember where the other one is. I'll check on that. HTH.
 
bill said:
In the '74s, one of which I have, the interior light switches on the left and right door jambs are in the window circuit. Make sure the contacts are clean and the ground connection is being made OK. IIRC, (I will check on this tomorrow) there are two relays involved in the window circuit, one of which is operated by the either of the door light switches...if one relay is bad, the windows won't work unless the door is opened. I know one of the relays is in the group located under the dash accessible through the left glove compartment...can't remember where the other one is. I'll check on that. HTH.
Click to expand...


Wow, great info Bill.

Was kind of hoping someone would have had this happen to them.
Now it's making some sense.
I will appreciate anymore you might find and will be trying to solve this problem next week.
The Forum comes through again!

Thanks,
Gary
 
Looked over my notes from 2009 when I had this problem...there are two relays involved and both are located in the left dash compartment next to each other. These relays have red, green and red/green wires connected to them unlike the others. Pull them out and check their operation. The left door switch operates one of the relays (I think the ignition switch operates the other...listen for a click when you turn the key on.) Check the door switch to make sure it is operational and grounding properly (you'll probably have to unscrew it from the jamb and remove it.) That oughta do it. Good luck, and have a beer....
 
bill said:
Looked over my notes from 2009 when I had this problem...there are two relays involved and both are located in the left dash compartment next to each other. These relays have red, green and red/green wires connected to them unlike the others. Pull them out and check their operation. The left door switch operates one of the relays (I think the ignition switch operates the other...listen for a click when you turn the key on.) Check the door switch to make sure it is operational and grounding properly (you'll probably have to unscrew it from the jamb and remove it.) That oughta do it. Good luck, and have a beer....
Click to expand...

Wow Bill you've really been a great help. I need to send you some beer!
Hope to check this out this week.
I'll let you know what I find.
Thanks again,
Gary
 
Same problem until now it mystifyed me!

Thanks for the responses, I have had the same problem for about a year and couldn't run it down, I renewed the door switches and the problem persisted, so it must be in the relay/s, any thought on the best place to get new relays? Are they still available from BMW? Thanks, Rum
 
I don't know if the relays are available....and of course I didn't have the patience to find out myself. Instead I bought relays from Autozone. IIRC, they need to handle 20 amps, so make sure of that. The pinouts may not match the old relays. No big deal if they don't: you can switch the wires around in the socket to match the pinout of the new relays (I know...it's not original, but coupe electronics are getting hard to keep original these days.)
 
Spent some time on this problem today.
Wish I could say I fixed it. NOT.

Some facts-

Both relays are working.
The door contact for the interior light is working.
The overhead light is working.
All the window switches work when door is open which basically means the contact is closed for the interior light and it is on.
Have ground through the brown ground wire at the door contact to a main grounding point I found on the firewall just about directly behind the speedo. About 9 brown ground wires terminate here. There is a 10mm nut through the spade connector. This car is very clean in this area but I did loosen the nut and move the connector back and forth.
Found that one of two bulbs in the interior light was burned out.
Tried a clip lead across the contacts to simulate a bulb and it blew the fuse. Did not have an extra bulb with me.
Also can't get a good ground from the brown wire at the interior light
to a good spot under the dash.
Tried grounding light to body (there is a place behind the light where I guess something attaches for the sunroof, non sunroof car)
No difference.
So I quit at this point and need to study the diagram more closely.
Gary
 
m5bb said:
Found that one of two bulbs in the interior light was burned out.
Tried a clip lead across the contacts to simulate a bulb and it blew the fuse. Did not have an extra bulb with me.
Click to expand...

You have two interior bulbs, a 74 feature? You removed bulb and jumped the contacts with a wire? That will blow a fuse for sure. And the relay that activates when key is turned on audibly clicks so you know it's good, same as the door relay?

Chris
 
Well guys I hate to admit defeat but this one has me.
I spent a few more hours trying to get this corrected.
One of the relays was bad but a replacement did not change anything.
The door contacts are working fine.
Basically what I did do it "hot wire" the door switch so the interior light would be on all the time since that was the only time the windows worked.
You just can't use the interior light set to work when the doors open.
It still works but just manually.
At least he can drive his car and roll down the windows.
He hardly ever drives it at night.

Something in the wiring is crossed and I could not readily find it and did not want to start going through the harness.
This is one of the maladies of 40 year old cars.

Gary
 
It may be as simple as the wires that feed the motor. With the door closed the wires are stretched out and when you open the doors this removes the pull inside the wires and they make contact again. See if you can get access to the wires and wiggle them a bit as you press the switch to see if that makes a difference/ or you get an intermittent working going on. If so you need to replace the wires as they are broken inside from all the opening and closing (stretching out).

I had a similar situation in a VW Corrado.
Hope this helps
Luis
 
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