Upgraded AC for our coupes?

Dan Mooney

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As I have now committed to a complete bare shell restoration of my CSi, I have decided to investigate what upgraded AC systems are available for our coupes. My CSi does not have factory AC, which is OK three or four months of the year, although AC is mandatory for year round use in Austin.

Has anyone developed an effective, all inclusive set-up? I am happy to do a certain amount of the design and engineering ground work, although there's obviously no point reinventing the wheel is someone has already worked it all out!

I searched old threads and saw some AC discusssion 6 or 7 years ago, but no mention of a comprehensive kit that might be available. Apologies if I missed something.

Thanks all!
Dan
 
well now, Dan, you have brought up a very interesting topic. Much has been discussed, especially in regards to making the a/c in a Coupe more effective. If you don't have Rob Siegel's book "Memoirs of a Hack Mechanic", yet, I suggest you get a copy and refer to Chapter "Getting a cool car cool". Great starting point. Good luck! Mike
 
well now, Dan, you have brought up a very interesting topic. Much has been discussed, especially in regards to making the a/c in a Coupe more effective. If you don't have Rob Siegel's book "Memoirs of a Hack Mechanic", yet, I suggest you get a copy and refer to Chapter "Getting a cool car cool". Great starting point. Good luck! Mike
Thanks Mike, I just ordered a copy from Amazon :D
 
Gary Knox posted a great series about a year or two ago...hopefully the stuff he ordered is still available. I would like to do what he did and get my '74 AC back in operation....sometime....soon... when I re-retire...
 
Gary Knox posted a great series about a year or two ago...hopefully the stuff he ordered is still available. I would like to do what he did and get my '74 AC back in operation....sometime....soon... when I re-retire...
Great,I'll look for Gary's AC posts. Thanks Bill!
 
Dan, this is subject of great interest for those of us in the southern states. The biggest obstacle to getting better cooling is the available space under the dash doesn't allow a larger evaporator to be installed. I had a look at putting an E24 evaporator in, and unless modifications (total replacement) to the heating ducts are made, there isn't room. Early German AC was not very good with our hot climate even when new. Add to that the change away from R-12 and it's harder to make the coupe cold.

Much has been written about AC, in fact, Rob Siegel is putting the finishing touches on his latest book: The Hack Mechanic guide to vintage air conditioning. After a bit more review, he'll announce the release here I'm sure. I plan to buy it as I'm going to installing AC into my coupe for the first time when I put it back together.

From my research, there are several things that can be done to aid the cooling of your coupe. Put in a heater shut off valve. That way you don't have hot water under the dash at all times to fight against. Add good insulation to the floors and doors. There is lizardskin spray on stuff, I've got some of the stick on kind I'll be using. Don't forget the roof if you have the headliner out. Get the windows aligned so you don't have as much infiltration there. Use as large a condenser in the front as you can, I believe 19x22 is the agreed upon biggest size that's practical to put in. Thin pusher fans tend to make noise while older thick bladed fans are quieter and should push more air. Check the specs. There is lots of room in the front of a coupe, unlike modern cars, thus the trend to thin fans. Putting in a 'rotory' style Sanden style compressor is also helpful. No big pulses like the old style compressor mean no muffler in the system, and the compressors are smaller to boot. Since R-12 can still be purchased on ebay and craig's list, some choose to continue to use it, even though shops can't sell it. I think I'll use the newer, cheaper coolant. Some say it can get as cold as R-12, others disagree.

If you want to sacrifice your glove box, you could probably put a modern 3rd party system under the dash, but I choose to hunt and finally found the stock evaporator from a forum member. I had the AC grill in the trunk, fortunately as they are scarce. Markos is 3D printing them in nylon, I think. Yes, you can put a huge evaporator in the trunk and bring the cold air in via the parcel shelf and maybe under the back seat, but that's not really very clean.

I'm sure I've forgotten some details. but that's the basic picture.

Ian
 
There's enough output from the factory fan and evaporator to cool the car especially if you upgrade the compressor and also the condenser. The obvious problem with the a/c system is that it doesn't have vents on either side of the car, only the middle. Upgrading the condenser and compressor make the system work really efficiently. I drove my car in 100 degree weather with the a/c on and the cabin got down to the mid/lower 70s with 28 degrees coming out of the vent. Having insulation in the doors, floors, and roof also helps.
 
I would replace the condenser fan, the factory fan has no shroud to direct the air flow. I put the biggest Spal brand fan I could fit in front of the condenser. As it turned out the radiator had a location for a thermal fan switch I added a couple of relays along with a fan switch so the condenser fan comes on if I'm sitting in traffic.
 
Dan, this is subject of great interest for those of us in the southern states. The biggest obstacle to getting better cooling is the available space under the dash doesn't allow a larger evaporator to be installed. I had a look at putting an E24 evaporator in, and unless modifications (total replacement) to the heating ducts are made, there isn't room. Early German AC was not very good with our hot climate even when new. Add to that the change away from R-12 and it's harder to make the coupe cold.

Much has been written about AC, in fact, Rob Siegel is putting the finishing touches on his latest book: The Hack Mechanic guide to vintage air conditioning. After a bit more review, he'll announce the release here I'm sure. I plan to buy it as I'm going to installing AC into my coupe for the first time when I put it back together.

From my research, there are several things that can be done to aid the cooling of your coupe. Put in a heater shut off valve. That way you don't have hot water under the dash at all times to fight against. Add good insulation to the floors and doors. There is lizardskin spray on stuff, I've got some of the stick on kind I'll be using. Don't forget the roof if you have the headliner out. Get the windows aligned so you don't have as much infiltration there. Use as large a condenser in the front as you can, I believe 19x22 is the agreed upon biggest size that's practical to put in. Thin pusher fans tend to make noise while older thick bladed fans are quieter and should push more air. Check the specs. There is lots of room in the front of a coupe, unlike modern cars, thus the trend to thin fans. Putting in a 'rotory' style Sanden style compressor is also helpful. No big pulses like the old style compressor mean no muffler in the system, and the compressors are smaller to boot. Since R-12 can still be purchased on ebay and craig's list, some choose to continue to use it, even though shops can't sell it. I think I'll use the newer, cheaper coolant. Some say it can get as cold as R-12, others disagree.

If you want to sacrifice your glove box, you could probably put a modern 3rd party system under the dash, but I choose to hunt and finally found the stock evaporator from a forum member. I had the AC grill in the trunk, fortunately as they are scarce. Markos is 3D printing them in nylon, I think. Yes, you can put a huge evaporator in the trunk and bring the cold air in via the parcel shelf and maybe under the back seat, but that's not really very clean.

I'm sure I've forgotten some details. but that's the basic picture.

Ian
Great stuff! Thanks for all the information Ian.
Cheers!
Dan
 
In new orleans summer heat and humidity my stock condensor fan works fine and is quiet. The modern parallel flow condenser and rotary compressor is what is needed.
 
In new orleans summer heat and humidity my stock condensor fan works fine and is quiet. The modern parallel flow condenser and rotary compressor is what is needed.
Thanks Steve. Several people have now told me the same thing, which is very encouraging. If I go the extra mile on the insulation, which I plan on doing, it sounds like my coupe can be an all year round driver, which is fantastic news!
Cheers!
Dan
 
Thanks Steve. Several people have now told me the same thing, which is very encouraging. If I go the extra mile on the insulation, which I plan on doing, it sounds like my coupe can be an all year round driver, which is fantastic news!
Cheers!
Dan

One more heat abatement step should be considered. It's possible to add a heat shield to the underside of the car above the exhaust pipes where they exit the exhaust manifold and start down under the car. There's a stock part from a later BMW (BMW PartNo: 51 48 1 832 850 ?) that reportedly fits well enough, but you have to add the attachment points. Others have fabricated their own and also made a heat shield to install down the length of the exhaust system below the drive shaft and above the exhaust. That way you keep even more of the heat from getting to the body.

There are several threads discussing this on the site.

Ian
 
I agree with the posts above that you can use the stock evaporator and upgrade the compressor, condenser and fan and get very good results. The air in my car is ice cold, and while the center vent is not ideal it still moves a lot of air.

Comparatively my 1983 911SC with a fresh charge was useless for air conditioning...just a classic car point of reference, while my E60 has better air then my E9, the E9 is still pretty good.

I also posted a few years ago on window tint....some of the modern tints block lots of sun but aren't very dark. I even tinted my windshield and the benefit is noticeable.

Heater bypass makes a difference as does tunnel insulation....I still need to do those.
 
One thing that has come up repeatedly in discussions behind the scenes is the difference in cooling performance between R-12 and R-134. I am obviously aware that R-12 is going to do a better job that R-134, although I am determined to come up with an adequate AC system for my coupe using R-134. I don't care about the extra cost of the R-12 (and I can buy the R-12 locally), it is more of an environmental issue for me.

Thoughts on Freon choices?
 
I use 134 with a parallel flow condenser, upgraded fan, rotary compressor and new hoses and it works just fine. No heater bypass or exhaust shield. It will take longer to initially cool the car with its single vent but it is more than adequate the few times a year that I need to use it.
 
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