Upgrading 14” to 16” wheels - a meaningful functional difference

tferrer said:
Avons are fantastic. IMHO they are way better for spirited driving than the Pirelli .

www.avonmotorsport.com

Avon Tyres - On Road. On Track. On Avons.

Avon has been making high quality tyres since 1904, tyres that fit all sorts of cars, motorbikes, vans and trailers. On two wheels as well as four.
www.avonmotorsport.com www.avonmotorsport.com
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I have run the CR6ZZ on my race car for 5 years.

Once hot they are really grippy yet managable at the limit. When cold they have very low grip, worse than typical modern all season tires. I’ve had great luck with them racing in the rain. I often do drives with temps around 32F, which is why would not use Avon’s on my street cars. Maybe grime for those living in Florida. Also, the Avon’s harden up noticeably after around 30 heat cycles (>160F), which may or may not be relevant for street use.

Anyway, I’ll go with the CN356’s for my GTV, but I still think the +70% premium for 10 or 20mm more width is outrageous gouging (regardless of what Dougal says).
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
once a year on oil changes
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Dick
With all due respect, I don’t fully agree with those articles.

Take the first one.
A key assumption is you don’t run it long enough to heat the oil up (good reason to have an oil temp gauge). This assumption doesn’t hold for everyone.

Second they assume you have lots of contaminants in your oil. If you drive enough sure. But the less you drive the less the contamination. As far as water vapor, yes I agree that condensation and humidity can cause water to build up in your sump. How much and how quickly varies per situation.

Third, they say oil breaks down just sitting there unused. When is the last time you checked the refinery production date on the oil you bought for your daily driver, and returned it to the store because it was over 6 months old?

They also mention running rich makes oil go bad faster. I agree with this. How rich is your car running? Is it past the threshold where it’s contaminating the oil 50% faster? I suggest you get your E9 oil analyzed after 6 months or 1000 miles, and see how much contamination there really is. Then you can decide how bad your oil has become and if you need to change it twice a year regardless of usage.
 
Last year I swapped out my 16" staggered Alpina/Coupe King rims mounted on Continental ExtremeContact's for 14" Alpina 14x7 with Michelin XWX 205/70/14 tires. The ride was greatly improved. Not nearly as harsh over rough pavement resulting in a much more compliant road feel. Another bonus is the great period look which IMO is an esthetic upgrade over any 16" wheel.

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rsporsche said:
its quite unfortunate to only have 185/70-14 for 14" wheels
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I second that. I wanted the CN36s but they are not wide enough for the 14x7 Ronals I am using. The only other vaguely period looking tire was the Goodrich Radial T/A (white lettering facing in). I was going for a hot rod look so they work OK but I have the CN36s on a 2002 and they much better tires.

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I don't know that I have anything constructive to add, but I do have opinions so here goes.

I like the look of 14's on an E9 and I like the ride. I know 16's have a lot more tire choices but a nice new set of 14" all season tires might just have the same grip as what was a "performance" tire 20 years ago. Plus, if it rains or if it's cold I have no worries, just drive. Having driven Hoosier R6's on the street that's some nice peace of mind.

I also think the smaller wheels provide a meaningful reduction in weight. Rotational and unsprung weight no less.

Here is my 14x8 custom Weds (modified from a 14x7 with extra outer lip) with a Michelin Defender 195/70/14 and the 15x11 rears waiting to go on my 911. Small diameter and big sidewalls...it's the new black.

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'69 2800cs said:
I don't know that I have anything constructive to add, but I do have opinions so here goes.

I like the look of 14's on an E9 and I like the ride. I know 16's have a lot more tire choices but a nice new set of 14" all season tires might just have the same grip as what was a "performance" tire 20 years ago. Plus, if it rains or if it's cold I have no worries, just drive. Having driven Hoosier R6's on the street that's some nice peace of mind.

I also think the smaller wheels provide a meaningful reduction in weight. Rotational and unsprung weight no less.

Here is my 14x8 custom Weds (modified from a 14x7 with extra outer lip) with a Michelin Defender 195/70/14 and the 15x11 rears waiting to go on my 911. Small diameter and big sidewalls...it's the new black.

View attachment 102714
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Those are the TB-5,correct. Everyone always gets the 15s which I always wondered why not the 5s if you aren't looking for rain. Beautiful wheels.

Who did the RSR finish?
 
mmccusername said:
I second that. I wanted the CN36s but they are not wide enough for the 14x7 Ronals I am using. The only other vaguely period looking tire was the Goodrich Radial T/A (white lettering facing in). I was going for a hot rod look so they work OK but I have the CN36s on a 2002 and they much better tires.
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mmccusername said:
I second that. I wanted the CN36s but they are not wide enough for the 14x7 Ronals I am using. The only other vaguely period looking tire was the Goodrich Radial T/A (white lettering facing in). I was going for a hot rod look so they work OK but I have the CN36s on a 2002 and they much better tires.
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Did you consider 205/70/14?
 
Markos said:
Did you consider 205/70/14?
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I did consider CN36s in 205/70r14 but for whatever reason the actual measured width of the Pirellis in that size seem to be more like 195/70 tires made by other brands. In other words it seems like the CN36s runs a little small. I didn't know anyone with CN36s I could measure and I didn't want to deal with the hassle of returning them...
 
mmccusername said:
I did consider CN36s in 205/70r14 but for whatever reason the actual measured width of the Pirellis in that size seem to be more like 195/70 tires made by other brands. In other words it seems like the CN36s runs a little small. I didn't know anyone with CN36s I could measure and I didn't want to deal with the hassle of returning them...
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Totally understand wanting wider tires. CSL’s did come from the factory with 195’s on 7x14 wheels.
 
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Those are the TB-5,correct. Everyone always gets the 15s which I always wondered why not the 5s if you aren't looking for rain. Beautiful wheels.

Who did the RSR finish?
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Yep, TB5’s. They look great but not many other options!

They are Braid BZ’s, so their stock RSR finish.
 
in thinking of simple math (round numbers), say the tire diameter is 25", it is easy to calculate the nominal tire profile above the rim diameter
with 14" wheels, the tire profile is 5.5"
with 15" wheels, the tire profile is 5"
with 16" wheels, the tire profile is 4.5"
with 17" wheels, the tire profile is 4"
with 18" wheels, the tire profile is 3.5"

so generally 14" wheels for the e9 use 70 series tires / 15" wheels use 60 series tires / 16" wheels use 55/50 series tires / 17" wheels use 50/45/40 series tires and 18" probably use 45/40/35 series tires dependent on the width size available.

i thought about 17" with 50 / 45 series ... but 1.5' Sidewall profile difference ... for me 50 series tires are comfortable. 60 series are more comfortable and 70 series tend to slide a bit on really twisty mountain roads - @Stevehose, talk to us about Tail of the Dragon ... of course you were using the CN-36's which are much better than your basic grand touring all season tires.
 
Here’s my take from a 2002 perspective. My ‘71 came to me with 15” Panasports and 195/50 tires. It’s lowered, ST bars and Billy Sports. I put new Yoko S Drives and it was very sticky in the twisties. The ride was very firm.

A couple years ago I found some nice Borrani 13” steelies. I bought the CN36 Pirellis. Almost same overall diameter. Ride quality on modern roads was VERY much improved. Grip was still there and I’m not scared to throw it into any street corner.

My recommendation is keep the 14” for street, and use the 16” on the track.

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Ed Z
 
Is the issue sidewall flex or contact patch?
I have 225 x 60 x 14 on my coupe so presumably, there is a good contact patch.
I don't track the car but do drive pretty aggressively at times.
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“My recommendation is keep the 14” for street, and use the 16” on the track.”

This seems to be the consistent recommendation for those willing to deal with the swaps and storage. Some of you have multiple steering wheels, and looks like i will end up with multiple wheel/tire sets.

With the prices of 14” tires they better last at least 10 years.

Thank you for the interesting discussion and good advice.
 
@Stan you have the benefit of a lower profile tire (60 series) and a wider contact patch than the standard 14" tire. the tires are 9" wide and have a tread width of 7.6" ... which is narrower than the 16" tread width. since those tires have a more rounded shoulder, are your fender lips rolled and do you have camber plates. i will note that size is very limited. on tire rack, the goodrich is the only tire available in that size.
 
bfeng said:
“My recommendation is keep the 14” for street, and use the 16” on the track.”

This seems to be the consistent recommendation for those willing to deal with the swaps and storage. Some of you have multiple steering wheels, and looks like i will end up with multiple wheel/tire sets.

With the prices of 14” tires they better last at least 10 years.

Thank you for the interesting discussion and good advice.
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I have 4 sets of wheels for Athena.
14 x 7 Silver BBS Mahles (For sale $600)
14 x 7 Gold/Silver Painted Lip BBS Mahles (For sale $700)
14 x 7 Stock CS wheels (keeping)
16 x 7 Silver w/Polished Lip BBS RS (keeping)

Basket Weave.JPG
Gold 01.jpg
Finished.JPG
Dooley Illust pic.jpg
 
BTW,
I have had good luck getting tires from Europe, at substantially lower prices and with wider availability of 13” and 14” sizes with 70 and 60 profile. We in America seem to have a much greater preference for large diameter wheels and low profile tires than any other country I to which I travel.

Example: These are avail in Euro in a 195/70R14 for about $140/tire, link = A008.

I could easily bring a set of 5 home as checked luggage for an extra $100, and I think they are a good E9 tire, fairly priced.

In some cases this can present unacceptable risk as I don’t know if all tires sold in Europe have a DOT code on the sidewall ( in the case of an accident). I know the 165 size of these are sold here for classic Mini’s but I’ve not seen the 195/70r14 here in the states.
 
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