Like I said I am intrigued. Neither of the art cars appear to have the bracket.
I don’t have any answers. My brain works best with pictures. Here is a screen grab of Stuck circa 1973 with a gen 1 CSL rear wing.
1974 3.0CSL on BaT
- Thread starter Drew Gregg
- Start date
Like I said I am intrigued. Neither of the art cars appear to have the bracket.
I don’t have any answers. My brain works best with pictures. Here is a screen grab of Stuck circa 1973 with a gen 1 CSL rear wing.
Bummer, I was planning to go to that forum and talk about the EV push leading to UAW picket lines as an incredible paradox
... I will be deleted and canceled I guess.Anyway, your catch Markos on the screws going into the roof metal is a great catch, and is just sacrilege. If you are racing a car and the body is just throwaway, fine. But for a collector car I would never accept that.
What I am trying to say is that on the 1975 Werks-Coupes the same type of "Dachspoiler" was used, without the brackets!
Photo by radical-mag http://radical-mag.com/2020/04/17/bmw-3-5-csl-imsa/
Thomas
Seems odd that a road car would come that way given these parts were in the trunk when it was delivered new. Who is going to drill holes in the roof to mount that?
On german roads the spoiler and the wing were not legal at that time. So it was kept in the trunk when the car was delivered. It was then the new owner´s decision and responsibilty to install it.
Whereas the spoiler of the car on sale was fixed mounted, by whom ever, and as the papers show legalized by Austrian goverment.
So what you see, in my opinion, is a state of the art race Werk-Coupe installation per 1975, not an aftersale "boutique ware" installation. So the new owner will get something ver special!
As I said "honi soit qui mal y pense"
Thomas
Whereas the spoiler of the car on sale was fixed mounted, by whom ever, and as the papers show legalized by Austrian goverment.
So what you see, in my opinion, is a state of the art race Werk-Coupe installation per 1975, not an aftersale "boutique ware" installation. So the new owner will get something ver special!
As I said "honi soit qui mal y pense"
Thomas
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That makes sense to me and there is enough photo evidence to support that. Why waste 8 ounces on metal clamps.
Next up. I do see a lot of period motorsport stripes batmobiles with black grilles and
chrome wipers (like this listing).
This e isn’t an actually batmobile. Note the CS headrests. I read (here - the CSL elders) that this car was used to showcase the aero parts for homologation:
FWIW - I think many of these consigners use consulting services and other creative venues to justify their income to their respective state.
For instance, one can state that they are a filmmaker, and their revenue stream is from creating films for their clients. That obviously doesn’t encapsulate listing vehicles on BaT, answering questions, etc. It also doesn’t cover “fixing up” the vehicle as they may claim on car show interviews etc.
A true consigner within say… California is responsible for submitting the sale documentation and is also required to register as a dealer. You can lookup dealers by company name in California as well as place of business.
Consignment:
www.dmv.ca.gov
Dealer Lookup:
www.dmv.ca.gov
For instance, one can state that they are a filmmaker, and their revenue stream is from creating films for their clients. That obviously doesn’t encapsulate listing vehicles on BaT, answering questions, etc. It also doesn’t cover “fixing up” the vehicle as they may claim on car show interviews etc.
A true consigner within say… California is responsible for submitting the sale documentation and is also required to register as a dealer. You can lookup dealers by company name in California as well as place of business.
Consignment:
2.020 Consignments - California DMV
Chapter 2 General Information — Licensees 2.020 Consignments (VC §266) A consignment is an arrangement under which a dealer agrees to accept possession of a vehicle of a type required to be registered under the Vehicle Code from an owner of record for the purpose of selling the vehicle and to...
www.dmv.ca.gov
Dealer Lookup:
Occupational License Status Information System (OLSIS) - California DMV
Vew information related to a Traffic Violator School by license number, name, or address location, and surety bond information.
www.dmv.ca.gov
Also probably stronger than attaching to the gutter - never understood how it stayed on that way even at low speeds.
This has been very educational reading comments - I feel like have done a 101 course on CSL's now - much appreciated!
Hi Stevehose,
I never had one come off on a street Bat, remembering the center upright is bolted through the roof and the correct clip also clamps to the structure of the roof, not just the trim, absolutely no reason to worry at street speeds.................unless
......well at speeds I travel officer Funny, that its my race car being shown as an example of it being on other cars - sadly, really not a good comparison
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In response to Alec:
Info on 2275489:
FWIW: These are period photos…
Info on 2275489:
FWIW: These are period photos…
He posted a bunch more and they all have clamps too except for the black one which is from this auction.
bringatrailer.com
I imagine confusion stems from the fasteners being in the same location on the hoop.
1972 BMW 3.0 CSL 3.5L 5-Speed
Bid for the chance to own a 1972 BMW 3.0 CSL 3.5L 5-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #34,157.
I imagine confusion stems from the fasteners being in the same location on the hoop.
He posted a bunch more and they all have clamps too except for the black one which is from this auction.
1972 BMW 3.0 CSL 3.5L 5-Speed
Bid for the chance to own a 1972 BMW 3.0 CSL 3.5L 5-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #34,157.
I imagine confusion stems from the fasteners being in the same location on the hoop.
Yup. The chamonix is the same car as the postcard, and has clamps. The car painted schwarz is a carb CSL, produced well before the bat kit existed. The taiga car (4355049) also has clamps.
I didn't even bring up thing wing on BaT
Last night I went through these pictures that a friend of his sent me and I clearly explained the facts. I even sent the closeup of the rear support that he used. Disappointed.
What I wrote to his friend:
1-
“Black one doesn’t have a bracket and is an aftermarket since it doesn’t even have the center support, but if you look closely silver and the green ones have them, it’s just painted body colors. You can see the (at least I can) bracket over the gutter chrome”
2-
“And here is the picture of the same BAT that I found on Google too.
Played with shades and I can see the line of bracket on the hoop (aluminum vs fiberglass)
And a picture from behind that unquestionably shows a bracket hugging the hoop on both sides.”
And this is my reply today:
“He is not dealing with a bunch of as a supporter of his put it, “lynch mob”. We at the board are true enthusiast and some of us know every nut and bolt that goes in the car and where it goes.
I am surprised that you you didn’t believe me and let him use those pictures.”
Edit:
Apparently he was told to remove them after my comments, but was too late!
What I wrote to his friend:
1-
“Black one doesn’t have a bracket and is an aftermarket since it doesn’t even have the center support, but if you look closely silver and the green ones have them, it’s just painted body colors. You can see the (at least I can) bracket over the gutter chrome”
2-
“And here is the picture of the same BAT that I found on Google too.
Played with shades and I can see the line of bracket on the hoop (aluminum vs fiberglass)
And a picture from behind that unquestionably shows a bracket hugging the hoop on both sides.”
And this is my reply today:
“He is not dealing with a bunch of as a supporter of his put it, “lynch mob”. We at the board are true enthusiast and some of us know every nut and bolt that goes in the car and where it goes.
I am surprised that you you didn’t believe me and let him use those pictures.”
Edit:
Apparently he was told to remove them after my comments, but was too late!
Attachments
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A big part of me posing my question here about the wing is the desire to learn more about these vehicles. Cars listed for sale (not just batmobiles) often trigger “hey what is that” moments.
Nothing about this particular car bothers me. It’s not perfect and that is okay. Many many things weren’t discussed. I wouldn’t bring them up because they are general e9 issues that don’t interest me. I have plenty of e9 issues in the garage. For me, just knowing as much and possible about a vehicle is a big part of my hobby. Car hobbies have many facets.
What does bother me is the lack of humility by sellers. Yes some will make a video that says “I’m just a humble enthusiast who found my way into selling cars”. That is all well and good until someone has an observation to point out. If one’s immediate response is “how might I disprove this commenter’s observation”, then the whole humble enthusiast claims go out the window. We are back into the mode of maximize profit and execute damage control.
The observable fact is that commenters police themselves on BaT. For every casual keyboard expert there is typically a true expert to correct unfounded claims, rumors, mistruths about a particular vehicle. There is no need for dealers to attempt to out hobby a hobbyist. I’m just thankful when the true experts are interested enough to set us keyboard experts straight.
Nothing about this particular car bothers me. It’s not perfect and that is okay. Many many things weren’t discussed. I wouldn’t bring them up because they are general e9 issues that don’t interest me. I have plenty of e9 issues in the garage.
For me, just knowing as much and possible about a vehicle is a big part of my hobby. Car hobbies have many facets.What does bother me is the lack of humility by sellers. Yes some will make a video that says “I’m just a humble enthusiast who found my way into selling cars”. That is all well and good until someone has an observation to point out. If one’s immediate response is “how might I disprove this commenter’s observation”, then the whole humble enthusiast claims go out the window. We are back into the mode of maximize profit and execute damage control.
The observable fact is that commenters police themselves on BaT. For every casual keyboard expert there is typically a true expert to correct unfounded claims, rumors, mistruths about a particular vehicle. There is no need for dealers to attempt to out hobby a hobbyist. I’m just thankful when the true experts are interested enough to set us keyboard experts straight.
Sorry, I was wrong with the centre support. It´s installed indeed, clearly seen on page 190 as well on 161 and 163!
This Dachspoiler-fixing we find e.g. on the 1975 Werks-Coupes for the IMSA-GT series
or on the 1976 Turbo-Werks-Coupe
or on this 1976 Alpina-Faltz-Coupe
The three pictures above were taken from the Book " BMW Profile Touren- und Sportwagen" by Stefan Knittel, BMW-Classic, München 2008, page 131-133,
ISBN 978-3-8025-1622-1
A "must-have" for the sports car enthusiast.
Thomas
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Somehow it leaves a bit to be desired (but not much) when compared with this one going on the block in a week or so.
Chamonix and proper wheels complete the package.
cars.bonhams.com
Chamonix and proper wheels complete the package.
Bonhams Cars : 1973 BMW 3.0 CSL 'Batmobile' Series 1 Coupé Chassis no. 2275496 Engine no. 2275496 (see text)
• Iconic BMW 'homologation special' • One of only 110 Series 1 cars • Delivered new to Hamburg, Germany • One of only 33 Series 1 in desirable Chamonix White • Ex-Naito Collection, Tokyo • BMW Classic certificate 1973 was a landmark year for BMW, for not only did the German manufacturer power...
sold, $285,000
IMO seems about right if you put $100K into it. Doesn’t matter but I don’t think that will happen.
i think it will take a minimum of 50k, but somewhere between 50k + 100k is probable to get it set right