'72 Bavaria resurrection

[Buffarea]

Ok, so what better to do on a saturday morning before a Labor day weekend road trip? I pulled the driveshaft off with the guibo attached, and when I began to remove the remaining 3 bolts that attached it to the driveshaft, it literally came apart in pieces! I knew it was cracked of course but now know it was holding together just out of kindness.
The center bearing was also singing away so it was replaced as well.
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By the way, who can tell me why there are 2 screws in the driveshaft?

The shifter is pretty worn out. I took it apart and shimmed it with brass washers and grease to take up some slop but think I need the actual shift operating rod (from shifter to trans) as the end does not look seperatly replaceable and appears to be wallowed out. I replaced the trans oil 3 months ago but although the clutch feels good it is sometimes difficult to shift into 1rst and 3rd, and sometimes grinds going into reverse. I am thinking I must have syncronizers wearing out. Comments?
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I took a before pic of the rearend but "the after I cleaned it" picture somehow didn't turn out. I also replaced the rearend oil for the second time in 3 months as I believe there is a bearing problem going on in there.

Well I ran out of time to do more, these repairs took me about 3 hours on saturday morning and then we packed it full of our family and stuff and successfully logged about 350 miles.
The driveline is amazingly quieter and tighter than before but there is still an underlying bearing type vibration which I think it is in the rearend. Next weekend will include further diagnosis.

 

[coupe2800cs]

Drive shaft alignment & balancing

Most drive shaft shops can only spin a drive shaft to about 6500rpm, most likely your problem, a good balance to 10,000 rpm with replacement of the rear universals also suggested sometimes it's really hard to find a good drive-shaft shop locally now. I highly doubt the rear-end. Your sub-frame bushings on the that aging rear sub-frame should be replaced also, possible engine mounts, and transmission mounts as well. When that is done, check the alignment with a 4 foot level with 2 inch blocks taped on it at 1 foot lengths on the level, shim the middle support bearing as necessary. Verify that the rear-end bushing and mounting point are not damaged or worn, common for the single rubber mount at the rear of the diff to start pulling sheet metal away from the chassis, reinforce weld the mount point as necessary... If it's the rear-end e-bay for $50.00 or if your lucky the local bone yard...

 

[Buffarea]

Most drive shaft shops can only spin a drive shaft to about 6500rpm, most likely your problem, a good balance to 10,000 rpm with replacement of the rear universals also suggested sometimes it's really hard to find a good drive-shaft shop locally now. I highly doubt the rear-end. Your sub-frame bushings on the that aging rear sub-frame should be replaced also, possible engine mounts, and transmission mounts as well. When that is done, check the alignment with a 4 foot level with 2 inch blocks taped on it at 1 foot lengths on the level, shim the middle support bearing as necessary. Verify that the rear-end bushing and mounting point are not damaged or worn, common for the single rubber mount at the rear of the diff to start pulling sheet metal away from the chassis, reinforce weld the mount point as necessary... If it's the rear-end e-bay for $50.00 or if your lucky the local bone yard...

Thanks for the tips!
I plan to ramble on in hopes that you and others will chime in to help me find my way on my Bavarian oddessy.
When I had the prop shaft off last week, I checked the u-joints, they both move freely and do not appear to have excess play on or off the car. (I wish they had zirc fittings like the older cars though!)
This past weekend I was able to recheck things. First off I made a driveshaft alignment tool close to the one you describe and found the center bearing slightly low and slightly crooked, but to my dissapointment realigning it offered only marginal improvement.
Next I went about checking all the mounts, the engine and trans mounts are in suprisingly good shape and surely have been replaced in the last few years, ALL of the mounts in the rear appear to be original and dryed out, although I have not found one broken or with substantial movement with a prybar.
I was finally able to get the entire car off the ground enough to run it in 2nd gear at about 1500 rpm which is where the vibration becomes noticeable. Using a stethoscope the most noise come from the tail of the transmission (manual) and there is a slight leak from the output shaft.
The center bearing (new) and differential are quiet. However, when shut off and not moving there appears to be play in the diff., as I rotate the prop shaft back and forth there is alot of movement before it moves the rear axles, also there is a slight leak from the seal there. Lastly, I do hear and feel a specific clunk from the rear end as the clutch is released.
But before I start looking for a used rear end,
I have a few questions:
1) I know the diff. and trans tail both have seals that can be easily (relatively) replaced in the car, but are there any bearings that can be done in the same way?
2) I plan to repack my rear axle joints, is there a benefit to swapping sides to change there wear patterns and thereby "tighten" them up?
3) Can anyone tell me what other differential will direct fit into this car?

 

[Buffarea]

$280.00 richer (Heater fan rebuild)

Well I haven't done any more with the slight driveline vibration yet, but as fall is here it was time to look into the heater/blower motor that was completely inoperative. This car had A/C originally so the center console mounted blower was suffiecnt for summer driving.
I took the heater blower motor out and after inspection determined the brushes and brush holders had melted themselves severly. After experimenting with several different motors I have around I realized how fricken small this thing is! I was lucky to have a blower from an 86 GTI which I promptly tore out of it's housing. Unfortunatly this motor body is too long for a direct swapp and the armeture is too fat to slide the fan wheel on, so I took it apart and removed the brushes/mounting plate (which are much beefier but does fit) and swapped them into my motor.
End result is instant success and a nice strong quiet blower.
Melted contact plate.
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86 GTi blower (Bosch)
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New brush contact and brushes are much beefier than originals
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I wish taking pictures everytime I made a repair felt natural, but in most cases the repair is done before I think of it.
While spending the day working on the blower, I also made a few other small repairs. The contact ring for the horn is missing so I haven't had horns since I bought this car. I had a small black push-button and for the time being wired it and mounted it in the center of the dash console just above the
a/c vents in a hole where an a/c button had been. Don't worry, a correct fix will happen, but this works for now. Next I replaced the speaker that is mounted directly above the instrument cluster with a modern unit, so I now have 3 speaker am/fm. My cassette player is 38 yrs old but I just don't want a modern radio in the dash.
I pulled the shifter boots off and reinsulated the hole the shifter comes through, which greatly reduced engine/road noise and odor. Lastly I verified power to the defrost switch and mounted it on the left lower dash . (the back of the lower dash cover had a pre-marked hole so it was just a matter of cutting the vynil and installing the switch. Unfortunaly it does not defrost the glass so more diagnosis to come.

Next new item to pop up on the daily driver radar: It is getting hard to start cold in the mornings with slight whiteish smoke for a few seconds and coolant level slowly dropping, oil is ok. So I suspect coolant is leaking into combustion chamber after hot shut-off. I'm assuming it's probably a bad headgasket?

More later...

 

[Bill Riblett]

Next new item to pop up on the daily driver radar: It is getting hard to start cold in the mornings with slight whiteish smoke for a few seconds and coolant level slowly dropping, oil is ok. So I suspect coolant is leaking into combustion chamber after hot shut-off. I'm assuming it's probably a bad headgasket?

More later...

Bad head gasket if you are lucky - otherwise cracked cylinder head, especially if the head is a 1980 or older casting.

 

[Buffarea]

Bad head gasket if you are lucky - otherwise cracked cylinder head, especially if the head is a 1980 or older casting.

Ouch. I think along with the plans to do bodywork this winter, I will start looking for the most direct updated replacements for both the engine and transmission as a matching pair.

 

[61porsche]

Bav resto

Buff,

Several things come to mind...

1. If you're losing coolant there's a test kit to test presence of combustion gases in coolant- try NAPA or the like. I assume you have carbs- reach around the back carb and feel the small hoses and the connecting hose between the carbs- is it wet? Sometimes they seep, cause corrosion on the manifold nipples/ choke, need new clamps, and it's a very gradual thing over a week or two.

2.Diff- if you're halfshafts have play , grab the flange and rotate the wheel. It's more likely the CV joint than the diff but you have to isolate. No you can't swap sides. A little play is ok, any more and there's work to do usually a CV joint and boot kit.

3. Driveshaft- Try reindexing it by turning 180 to see if the balance gets better. Sometimes this helps.

 

[Buffarea]

61 Porsche,
Thanks! I will be under the car today!
Re: the half shafts, both inner boots are seeping from the large clamp but boots are ok, so I plan to repack them with new clamps, but if I remove both entire halfshafts, I cannot swap sides? (I've done this with some prior various cars and sometimes spinning them in the oppisite direction reduces wear-born vibrations)
Driveshaft vibration: I will be under the car today and will turn the rear shaft/diff. mount 180* first and see if that helps, next move to the front mount.
Coolant loss: The first thing that had indicated I may be having a problem is the cold start taking longer and then slight white smoke which clears up immediatly. I began watching my fluids closely and am not even sure it is using coolant as it is so slight, but the only fluid that may be deminishing.
I will get the kit, andcheck the lines you suggested.

 

[61porsche]

Half shafts

Sure you can swap. But imagine that speeding up and slowing down is causing wear in both directions of the joint.

Boots- on swing joint rears we usually run a little silicone after surgically cleaning the boot. Just don't overtighten.

One mmore thing to try on vibrations- air the tires up 5 more or so lbs. and go for a short ride and see if something changed.

 

[Buffarea]

driveshaft vibration

Well I built a driveshaft alignment tool a few weeks ago using a template from another thread but today is the first time I have had achance to use it.
The problem now is that the 4 equal blocks are not a valid way to measure because I have 2 different diameter drive shafts, the rear is larger than the front. Is this different from the e9?

 

[Buffarea]

Europlate stolen!

Well not much to update on the Bavaria, aside from keeping it operating as a daily.
But last night (devils night) my front plate got ripped off in front of my house! It really sucks too as I've had the plate for 15 years and was brought from a friend in his luggage, and the VW plate frame I brought back from my trip to Hungary also about 15 years ago.
Please remember what it looks like and let me know if it shows up somewhere!http://

 

[Buffarea]

Clutch slave rebuild

First off, as it turns out my wife came home from work and pulled the euro plate out of her purse. "Sorry" she said, "it must have gotten caught on a bush in front of my parking space at work"! So the plate had NOT been stolen, all is right with the world again and the plate will be remounted this weekend.
On to the clutch:
In a previous post here, and another in
'general discussion" (http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48209#post48209) I noted the clutch slave was leaking as the car sat at night. A best price for a new replacement cylinder ran about $260.00, and if you have been following my thread at all, you know that was not an option. I did not take the time to measure my cylinder to compare with that of the 2002 tii as suggested.
I found a rebuild kit on Ebay and since I have experience rebuilding Bosch clutch slaves on German made Holder tractors, decided to give it a try.
At the same time I bought the kit to rebuild the clutch master because I have read that on this car they often go in pairs, but will save it for the future.
As you may know, the slave kit only consists of three things, and only ONE that you really need, the inner sealing ring.
I brought the camera with the intention of an informative step by step, but as usual got started and before I knew it, the most interesting parts were over.
I will say this, take your time removeing the cylinder from the bell housing boss, the cylinder is made from a very soft metal, and any use of a hammer or pliers (note my plier grooves in pic) will leave wounds in it. I recommend wd40 and a wood drift. The same goes with holding the cylinder in a vice, wrapping it in a shop rag helps and also controls leaking fluid. be careful!
Once on the bench, it's a piece of cake. The first thing I did was to loosen the bleed screw. It was very siezed and required alot of wd40, a little heat, and gentle force. Next, close the bleeder, plug the fluid end and clean the whole thing including operating shaft and circlips with a wire brush and brake clean. I pushed the cylinder in with a phillips with a catch-can under it for brake fluid, used a tiny screwdriver to remove the C-clip, then a little compressed air in the other end to force the cylinder out. I only bring it out enough to remove,clean and install new seal, I did not completly remove the cylinder. The new rubber sealing ring seems like it is too small to go on but it does, and the only challenge is getting it to uniformly go back into the sleeve. This was easier than expected because (unlike the tractors) the sleeve actually has a slightly rounded edge inside. I then replaced the C-clip and used air pressure again to make sure the cylinder was pressed up against the clip. I then hosed it all with brake clean and compressed air and put it back on the car.
Once on the car I opened the bleeder and refilled the fluid until it ran out nice and clean and closed the bleeder.
Next was to pump the clutch-be careful here and I suggest NOT pushing the pedal to it's extreme but maybe 80/90% there until you get some back pressure. I continued to pump it about (no joke) 100 times until the pedal felt normal again. I held the pedal down with a stick and released the bleeder again, then repeat once more.
Job done. Bad pics.
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Next up: "Hot Spark" ignition upgrade.

 

[Sven]

I do not understand why you would not have removed the internal piston completely from the slave cylinder? You would not be able to thoroughly clean the inside nor inspect if there is any pitted surface from corrosion (which is typical if this is the original slave) otherwise. The same is true for the clutch master.

 

[Buffarea]

I do not understand why you would not have removed the internal piston completely from the slave cylinder? You would not be able to thoroughly clean the inside nor inspect if there is any pitted surface from corrosion (which is typical if this is the original slave) otherwise. The same is true for the clutch master.

Normally I would. But the piston didn't want to come out easily past where the seal was fully exposed and I did not want to force it trying to take it out. With the seal out I was able to slide it freely all the way in to inspect and out to the point the seals groove was exposed and saw no signs of wear so it did not seem nesc. to potentially damage it.
Considering there are no directions, diagrams, illustrations or even a helpful hint as to how this cylinder is built it seemed like NOT removing the piston was a safer bet than removing it.

 

[Buffarea]

latest update

Well the clutch slave repair is working fine with proper engagement and no leaks.
In the past week I have been able to make a few updates the Bavaria. First on the list was to replace the points with an electronic ignition update, I think it is an essential update whenever available and too easy to pass up. I was poised to purchase the Pertronix but a friend with a VW installed a "Hot-Spark" last year and sang the praises, and when I found out it was 2/3's the price I orderd it up. I took pics of the install but did not turn out.
Next on the list was to replace the loose right tierod. The alignment feels great on the highway with a nice straight steering wheel so I drove the car on the ramps and pulled the old one off. At this point nothing had moved so I set the 2 tierods next together and adjusted the new one as close as possible to the old one and installed it. When I slide the new part on there was NO additional adjustment required, I mean it was exact! So I tightened it all up. I plan to replace both control arms in the spring.
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Last thing was to install new swaybar mounts. I bought this set last year at a flee market for $5.99 just because. As it turns out they are exactly the same dimensions and took about 10 minutes to install them both.
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The plan is to take the car off the road next week and begin pulling it apart for rust repair and body/paint restoration, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[Buffarea]

Help with DIY alignment?

Hi all,
Last week I reported the alignment was perfect after having replaced a tierod. Well since driving a few days on the highway I have found it is not as perfect as I would like, so I have attempted to DIY align it.
I have successfully backyard aligned many different kinds of cars but never a BMW.
It may not be fair to call this an alignment because I am not adjusting camber/caster but setting the toe and steering wheel centering.
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I performed this by parking the car as level as possible, centering and locking the steering wheel and setting 4 jack stands around the car with a string tightly set at hub-center hieght.
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I found that both sides required adjustment and easily completed the settings but the car now feels slightly "twitchy" in a straight line, and my guess is it is slightly toed in.
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I know that both control arm bushings are old and worn but not with any real movement and certainly serviceable.

I guess my question is, do I need to be very slightly toed out to eliminate the twitchy feeling? Or am I missing something on this multi-link steering?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[sfdon]

Toe out is bad- don't go there. Your goal is 1/8 " toe in , but you need to measure with the weight of the car on the tires. For 40 bucks it is worth taking it in for a pro job.

 

[Phemisg]

For some reason, I think you need to measure/adjust with car on ground. I once helped campaign a race car and we made a long rod with arms that reached up behind the rims - picture a sway bar. This provided a quick check that was close enough for our purpose. The idea is to get a measure from the hub line at the front and then the back of the rim, not the tire. Keep in mind that excessive bearing clearance will throw off measurements. As someone suggested, it may be wise to pay for a pro job at some point just to make sure everything is OK - cheaper than wearing out tires.

 

[Buffarea]

Thanks for the tips guys. First I should point out, that the car is on the ground and as level as I could get it with a long carpenters level that ran through the front windows from the front door open windows sill to sill. The pics make it look like the jackstand is under the car but it is not, it is merely holding my string.
Since my previous post I have deemed both lower control arms unfit (ball joint play) and suspect the left tierod.
When I get these items replaced I will spring for an alignment, but nowhere is it possible for $40.00.
More like $100.00 in my current phone quotes.

 

['69 2800cs]

This has been a cool thread.

Question on your jackstands-are they the same distance apart front and rear? You're doing both sides at the same time?