My first BMW was a 1981 320i. Slow, awkward but I miss it (sold in 1992). I am thinking of searching for a 323i, anyone have experience with one of these, the drive, the repairs, parts availability? Sure I don't have a 2002 nor an e28 but for some reason, this car is interesting to me. Opinions welcome.
BMW E21 323i
- Thread starter bavbob
- Start date
E21s kind of awkward looking IMHO.
Get a 2002 or an e30.
Get a 2002 or an e30.
i love the e21 323i. i almost bought one in the early 90's, but state farm wouldn't insure a grey market car at that time ... so i bought an e28 533i. i have had (3) 2002's and an e30 m3. i have been keeping my eye open for a 323i, but haven't seen one in quite a while. if one shows up on BaT, you are talking to one of the people who will be bidding against you. they are certainly faster than your basic 2002, 2002 tii and any US 320i. gotta disagree with you Rob ... they aren't that awkward, unless you are also saying the e12 and e24 are awkward ... and i know you aren't saying that.
the price of a decent 2002 has gone up substantially and e30's have gone up a bit too ... but the e21 is still undervalued to some degree. i have even thought that an inexpensive way to update an e21 is to put a m52 engine in it (either 2.8 or 3.0) ... haven't checked to see if it would fit or not.
the price of a decent 2002 has gone up substantially and e30's have gone up a bit too ... but the e21 is still undervalued to some degree. i have even thought that an inexpensive way to update an e21 is to put a m52 engine in it (either 2.8 or 3.0) ... haven't checked to see if it would fit or not.
I've never owned one but I've always thought they were a good looking car. Just my opinion but from a design standpoint they are more modern looking than an e30. All that being said, I've never had an e30 but an e30 will be in my garage before an e21.
I had one (just a boring 4cyl but with a 0.6 bar turbo) with the sports package, sunroof, AC and some nice aftermarket suspension upgrades. I thought it was a very good looking & nice driving car. It was the first car I owned with a cockpit inspired interior design (couldn’t afford an e24), which I thought was very cool. I recall BMW did quite a lot to prevent rust on these in comparison to the 2002 and E3, but they still rust.
Areas to watch for: whereever BMW put holes in the body to mount trim. IIRC, flexible rubber ‘bridge’ piece between the rear bumper and rear balance rusted from the screw holes. Door bottoms & spare tire tub were also rust spots. Rear inner wheel wells were another rust prone area (along the seam of the shock reinforcement piece). Bottom rear of rear quarters and associated trunk floor area were another spot of the car didn’t have rear mudflaps (mind did). I’d also check the inner seams for the hood and trunk lid, both of which collect moisture (the fold over part).
Where are you going to find space to store this one?
Areas to watch for: whereever BMW put holes in the body to mount trim. IIRC, flexible rubber ‘bridge’ piece between the rear bumper and rear balance rusted from the screw holes. Door bottoms & spare tire tub were also rust spots. Rear inner wheel wells were another rust prone area (along the seam of the shock reinforcement piece). Bottom rear of rear quarters and associated trunk floor area were another spot of the car didn’t have rear mudflaps (mind did). I’d also check the inner seams for the hood and trunk lid, both of which collect moisture (the fold over part).
Where are you going to find space to store this one?
Back in the day my business partner had a '83 323i all decked out with Hartge gear. Very good looking and fast, but a friend had a Baur 323i that was faster for some reason. Not modified, just faster. They make an awesome engine note and rev quickly. I really like them but they need to be lowered with larger wheels IMO.
I am mostly familiar with the carb based 320s. I like the car a lot, even though at the time it represented to some a betrayal of the 2002 heritage...
The Pierburg 4A1 carb is a problem long term (NLA) so the fuel injected version makes sense in all dimensions...
The Pierburg 4A1 carb is a problem long term (NLA) so the fuel injected version makes sense in all dimensions...
The 2002 established BMW as a viable brand in America, for real driving enthusiasts.
The e21 made BMW an iconic aspirational brand for the American masses, which 45 years later is still arguably their brand image in here in the USA.
It could be argued that the E21 was the most important car BMW made in the last 45 years. Not the best, just the most influential.
John
The e21 made BMW an iconic aspirational brand for the American masses, which 45 years later is still arguably their brand image in here in the USA.
It could be argued that the E21 was the most important car BMW made in the last 45 years. Not the best, just the most influential.
John
I have an e39 540 6 speed that I think is great. The M5 versions of this same car are highly sought after, but the 540, which has similar torque and HP up to 4000 rpm, is coveted only by a very small number of people. In the end, its not the opinion of the majority that is important.
The little kick you get every time you get into a car you really like is one of life's little pleasures. Forget about parts availability and whatnot. If the car gives you a recurring dose of joy, you can afford it and you have room, go for it.
The little kick you get every time you get into a car you really like is one of life's little pleasures. Forget about parts availability and whatnot. If the car gives you a recurring dose of joy, you can afford it and you have room, go for it.
I asked Carl Nelson before buying my E39 M5, he said get the 540 instead...
It was a one owner friend selling it, so it was M5 or nothing, not even a personal choice.
I am glad to know I can smoke you above 4k RPM
.
Doesn’t look that awkward to me…
I think it is all a matter of condition and perspective.
It's also a matter to comparing apples to apples. A stock U.S. version E21 is not all that great looking. You posted a 323i version with small bumpers and larger aftermarket wheels and airdam. Not quite the same comparison to the stock E30 and 2002 in U.S. big bumper garb. Just sayin'.
Ya, let's compare a '74 2002 Turbo to a stock grandma E21 then, or a E30 M3 to an E21.
There's a REASON that the E21s are cheap. They're not that desirable from a looks point of view, even though in many ways, they are superior to a 2002.
There's a REASON that the E21s are cheap. They're not that desirable from a looks point of view, even though in many ways, they are superior to a 2002.
Strangely enough, one of my favorite race cars in an E21...
@dang,
Per the thread title and post, @bavbob is specifically interested in a 323i. They all had
thin bumpers and a nice valance (just not the one I posted).
@teahead started his comparison apples to oranges, because know he was thinking of a US spec e21 to a small bumper 2002 and resized US bumper e30. All US spec 1974-1987ish euro cars are a little awkward. Before the diving board era ended, BMW pivoted with cleaner e30 bumpers and the e34.
Also, @teahead - 323i’s aren’t cheap. Not
for a nice one anyway. At any rate, Bob specifically said he owned an e21 and desires another. Your response is that they are awkward and he should buy another model. Helpful!
yep - love the racing e21. this is the one David Hobbs drove - saw it at Amelia in 2014. also very much agree with @Markos comments - the 323i is not an inexpensive car, especially the Baur, Alpina or Hartge modified. and since the title of this thread is e21 323i, any comparisons to us spec e21 isn't really applicable - performance or styling wise. to me the e21 and the e12 share a lot of the same dna styling wise. so do the e28 and e30. i like both of the 3ers.
Rob - we agree with you about the US bumpers. the 323i was not a USA model ... it has the euro (small) bumpers like the pic from Markos above. totally different animal. i have zero desire for e21 diving board bumpers. don't want them on a coupe either, all though all 3 of my 2002's had them.
that model must be very hard to find in the US. I understand that only E21 4 cylinders with injeccion got there.
That is correct