DIY - Triple Weber install

OK I have pulled the trigger and am heading to the Dark Side with a set of Italian triple 40 DCOE webers - I will be detailing the trials and tribulations of rebuild and install in the coming weeks. I love my Zeniths but am fascinated with the plumbing and exotic potential of 3 side drafts. So for this experiment I am thinking:

-Ramflo style foam filters for brake booster clearance (or are low profile paper filters better?)
-Carter 4070 low psi/high volume pump mounted underneath and heavily insulated/isolated for noise reduction
-Regular base gaskets instead of soft mount o-ring ones
-metal can fuel filter
-inertia cutoff switch
-old mechanical fuel pump cover plate from Carl N.

I would appreciate hearing from current triple owners on any tips/advice to consider so I minimize noob mistakes.

Do I need to relay the pump and/or how should I wire it?

What else to consider (besides saving for gas money)?

I want max induction music :mrgreen:
 

Stevehose

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
11,254
Reaction score
3,474
Location
New Orleans, LA
Carbs are installed and running

Installed and hooked everything up, got them synced fairly close to check driveability, holy crap these things roar when you accelerate - the jetting seems ok because it screams like a banshee to the redline. Definitely more torque and acceleration than my Zenith's. Will spend the weekend dialing the mixture/sync in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7nIgaSNoTs&feature=plcp

Then I will put on ramflo filters.
 

Nicad

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
3,334
Reaction score
417
Location
Toronto
I hope you do that on the street, early Sunday morning. Nice work Steve.
 

deQuincey

Quousque tandem...?
Site Donor
Messages
7,044
Reaction score
1,341
Location
BIO
very nice steve

i would appreciate if there is a chance that you can detail a little bit what parts did you used, and how did you made it, to keep as a record for a future need if all zenith spares dissapear

btw, in your video i feel that the iddle sound is louder in the beginning than in thi end, ...is it true ? you know why ?

regards
 

Stevehose

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
11,254
Reaction score
3,474
Location
New Orleans, LA
I think it's the closeness of my cell phone camera that may be the reason. I will list all the parts. I am going to disassemble my Zeniths for proper long term storage.

i would appreciate if there is a chance that you can detail a little bit what parts did you used, and how did you made it, to keep as a record for a future need if all zenith spares dissapear

btw, in your video i feel that the iddle sound is louder in the beginning than in thi end, ...is it true ? you know why ?

regards
 

Stevehose

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
11,254
Reaction score
3,474
Location
New Orleans, LA
Foiled by an early am rain shower! However, yesterday I managed to tune well enough to drive it in the evening. I used a Colortune to set the mixture (poor man's AFM but it allows you to see into each cylinder, not an average of all) since I see a number of Weber people do so including the Porsche weber rebuilder specialist (he uses one in each cylinder). I adjusted to the slightly rich side of "perfect" burn with good idle quality. Here is a crappy picture of rich and ideal burn in my cylinder

Rich:
Rich-burn.jpg


Ideal:
Good-burn.jpg


Some cylinders previously idled ok but were way off mixture-wise so this is a decent check to only using best rpm method. You can check richness with the Colortune while revving it also. Prior to this my plugs were a little sooty so I will recheck today. Next up is the timing, I advanced it a little yesterday and will play with it more today in the garage while I wait for the streets to dry out, I am getting a little hiccup around 3200 rpm so will see if it is that - didn't appear to stumble while driving under real conditions yesterday. Ramflo filters on the way.



I hope you do that on the street, early Sunday morning. Nice work Steve.
 

deQuincey

Quousque tandem...?
Site Donor
Messages
7,044
Reaction score
1,341
Location
BIO
evening. I used a Colortune to set the mixture (poor man's AFM but it allows you to see into each cylinder, not an average of all) since I see a number of Weber people do so including the yesterday. Ramflo filters on the way.

really interested in the colortune expereience,

i will bought one next month, in a place that i have identified in germany, but i willlike to know more about it, and you are a well informed user...

so if you dont mind i have some questions:

. for the two zeniths setting do i have to cehck the colortune in each one of the six cyl, or i can do it in one out of three, that is for example, cyl 2, and cyl 5 ?
i mean, as you can only stablish the settings for the carbs, and each carb feeds three cyls,...

. i do not understand the principle, but i think that i have to remove the sparkplug and fit the colortune instead, ok, but do i have to aply the same torque to the colourtune than the one that is applied to the plug ?

. iearnt that there is a 12 and 14mm version of the colour tune, for our case it will be the 14 right ?

. does the colortune become very hot when you use it ? can you remove it immediately to move on the next cyl ? any special care ?

. do you have to previously set the timing ? which action comes first colourtune or timing ?

. is the colourtune to be used at iddle ? at 1700rpm (as is stated for the carbs) ? other rpms ?

. is there any relationchip between colourtune tune and CO correct setting ? i mean, i assume that when the combustion is perfect a certain value of CO is reached, can this value be zero, i do not remember my old school days

regards
 

Stevehose

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
11,254
Reaction score
3,474
Location
New Orleans, LA
I started a new thread on this so others who may be interested don't have to get bogged down in this carb project:

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11701


really interested in the colortune expereience,

i will bought one next month, in a place that i have identified in germany, but i willlike to know more about it, and you are a well informed user...

so if you dont mind i have some questions:
 

Stevehose

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
11,254
Reaction score
3,474
Location
New Orleans, LA
Update

Finally solved the middle carb air leak causing backfire and spitting. I also went a notch richer on the idle jets and main air correctors to bring me more in line with other 3x weber coupes I've seen here. All hoses are braided cloth including the crankcase breather for period look. Smooth idle. Took it for a test drive tonight and it friggin' screams and pulls to the redline (for a stock engine). The intake sound is awesome. The gas mileage sucks. I grin when I accelerate - worth the tradeoff for now - I will see if they are livable long term. It's taken 2 months to get to this point through several frustrating (and costly) hurdles. I ended up with soft mounts with couplers instead of phenolic spacers/gaskets with throttle levers/cross bar.

Next up, more engine detailing, another colortune session, and tracking down a wideband gauge to check jetting through the rev range - will document the final settings for any others contemplating this self-indulgent mod. Thanks for the help.

IMG-20120715-00547.jpg
 
Last edited:

rsporsche

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
9,136
Reaction score
2,359
Location
Atlanta, GA
excellent news Steve! many congrats. just be glad you have 40 dcoes not 45s. look forward to seeing it run.

s
 

Nicad

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
3,334
Reaction score
417
Location
Toronto
excellent news Steve! many congrats. just be glad you have 40 dcoes not 45s. look forward to seeing it run.

s

Just wondering in what ways he would be unhappy with the 45s? That is what I have. Can they be made to be civil?
 

rsporsche

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
9,136
Reaction score
2,359
Location
Atlanta, GA
Bob,

he has basically a stock engine. getting the jets to work is really tough. if you have a fire-breathing engine ... you want 45s.

back in my mg days - a porsche friend gave me a pair of 45 dcoes ... we worked for days trying to get the jets right - never got it right. when we rebuilt the engine, with a stout cam + upped the compression, it was a piece of cake. when i sold the mgb-gt, i took the webers off and put the su's back on ... then put them on my 2002. same problem. i traded them for a pair of 40s ... easy integration. i loved the 45s on my korman 2002

anything is possible ... your experience might be different.

my 2 cents worth of experience
 

Stevehose

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
11,254
Reaction score
3,474
Location
New Orleans, LA
Here's pretty much the final setup, had the head rebuilt after detecting a cracked exhaust valve, fixed the cam sprocket from being off one tooth, aluminum parts bead blasted, new yellow fasteners, braided hoses, replaced the front main seal and chain tensioner, and detailed various components. Although the trumpets are for show, I have filter socks that fit over them for driving. I'll probably right angle the brake hose coming out of the manifold to clean up the loop. I installed an AFR gauge behind the speaker grille to see when driving which is removable to see while tuning, switchable and also completely hidden when not in use. Thanks for all the assistance, it only took 6 months!
picture.php
 

execmalibu

Member
Messages
629
Reaction score
2
Scott is correct... You can OVER CARB unless you have a Built Engine...

Webers when matched to the engine are great but you can definitely OVER CARB your engine...

Porsche 356SC and Carrera 2s came with 40mm Solex (40P11). There were lots of guys that thought that bigger was better and they installed 48 Webers when building a monster motor... These guys tried everything but no joy!

Even on a built Porsche engine (larger bore, High lift Cam, Ported Heads) the 48s were just too big they just flowed too much are too slowly... The engine was weak until around 5,500 RPM then when you shifted the power dropped off it would fall on its face... The 44 Webers that the Porsche Factory used on the 2 Liter 904 (Type 587 Engine)were the Weber Hot Ticket setup... Those Webers still took allot of time to dial in...

I used to race with the 40P11 Solexes from the Carrera 2 because they had 42mm Venturis and the engine made great power from 5,000-8,000RPM and they were very simple... Only idles and Mains to deal with...
 
Last edited:

rsporsche

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $$
Messages
9,136
Reaction score
2,359
Location
Atlanta, GA
Steve,

your updated underhood looks great! gotta be humming pretty nice at full song.
 

giannicsl

Active Member
Messages
745
Reaction score
112
Location
roma-italia
GREAT DEBATE guys ...

great taste!

please

I wanted some advice.

I would like to put the 3 webers on my 3000.

I would like to do a good job inserting a new camshaft.

do you think it would be better to put a camshaft from 282-284 asymmetrical
or even larger type 300?

I also change the 12 springs or not?

I wish I had a good shot and engine torque even at low rpm ...

I would like a good motor to be used in town, but ready to get speeds up to redline without hesitation.

I would like to have an engine that is at least 15 hp more than the original zenith.

I look forward to your answers
 
Top