Euro 1974 BMW 3.0CSi 4-Speed
- Thread starter Jon C
- Start date
Golf really is stunning.
Curious about one of the comments from the peanut gallery - Somebody who goes by "Redram" states that because this car is located in California, the seller is obligated by law to provide a "passing Smog check" to the buyer. Is there such a law, and how does it work? I could see where this might apply to a car that is titled and registered in CA, but this car is titled and registered in Montana (presumably to avoid precisely the need to pass a smog check).
Curious about one of the comments from the peanut gallery - Somebody who goes by "Redram" states that because this car is located in California, the seller is obligated by law to provide a "passing Smog check" to the buyer. Is there such a law, and how does it work? I could see where this might apply to a car that is titled and registered in CA, but this car is titled and registered in Montana (presumably to avoid precisely the need to pass a smog check).
Frequently Asked Questions: Smog Check Program
Find answers to frequently asked questions about the Smog Check Program.
www.bar.ca.gov
Looks like a 1974 is exempt
Yup. Looks like on-going smog testing is not required (so the comment in the auction that the seller needs to provide a smog check to the buyer is wrong).Frequently Asked Questions: Smog Check Program
Find answers to frequently asked questions about the Smog Check Program.
Looks like a 1974 is exempt
On the other hand, it also appears that a grey market 1974 vehicle needs to pass emissions testing prior to registration. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/frequently-asked-questions?keywords=grey+market+vehicle#search_anchor
There are barriers to moving a pre 1976 car into California. If you own it and move your residency and the car from another state to CA, you can do it. But to bring it into the country and directly try to register in CA, there are problems I think.
dmv.ca.gov answers every question.
Wholly explains why this CS is registered to an LLC in Montana.
It is widely known many register their collector cars in Montana, Vermont or Maine & a few other states to skirt by overly harsh or clearly impossible registration restrictions in CA. Not revealing any big secret here.
www.dmv.ca.gov
Notably:
You may also need:
www.dmv.ca.gov
Notably:
www.dmv.ca.gov
Notably:
Wholly explains why this CS is registered to an LLC in Montana.
It is widely known many register their collector cars in Montana, Vermont or Maine & a few other states to skirt by overly harsh or clearly impossible registration restrictions in CA. Not revealing any big secret here.
Registration for a Vehicle Purchased from a Dealer - California DMV
Buying a vehicle from a dealership
www.dmv.ca.gov
You may also need:
- A completed Vehicle/Vessel Transfer and Reassignment (REG 262) form. Show Citation 11
- A Statement of Facts (REG 256) form.
- Smog certification.
- Vehicle Emission System Statement (SMOG) (REG 139) form.
- A Declaration of Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Combined Gross Vehicle Weight (CGW) (REG 4008) form (if you are purchasing a commercial vehicle).
- Use tax and/or various other fees.
How to Register Vehicles Purchased in Private Sales - California DMV
If you purchase a vehicle from another person instead of a dealer, it is known as a private party purchase.
www.dmv.ca.gov
- A smog certification.
Imported Vehicle Registration - California DMV
If you have imported your car from a foreign county, you must follow state laws for registering your vehicle and complying with state emission standards.
www.dmv.ca.gov
- A smog certificate.
- This applies to gasoline vehicles manufactured after 1968
I had to jump through some hoops, my first e9 had dropped out of the DMV's database, it was registered in California but a very long time ago. They had to visually inspect it at the DMV and concluded that I had to make an appointment with the Hwy patrol. The Highway patrol just checked some of the engine components that had the VIN on them and said it was fine. I wonder what would have happened if there was a (very common) engine swap?
Problem with all of that is it all depends on what office you go to and who's working that day. Nothing is black and white in the disorganized DMV. You can register anything you want in Cal if you know a few folks.dmv.ca.gov answers every question.
Wholly explains why this CS is registered to an LLC in Montana.
It is widely known many register their collector cars in Montana, Vermont or Maine & a few other states to skirt by overly harsh or clearly impossible registration restrictions in CA. Not revealing any big secret here.
Notably:Registration for a Vehicle Purchased from a Dealer - California DMV
Buying a vehicle from a dealership
You may also need:
To complete your registration, please visit a DMV field office in person.
- A completed Vehicle/Vessel Transfer and Reassignment (REG 262) form. Show Citation 11
- A Statement of Facts (REG 256) form.
- Smog certification.
- Vehicle Emission System Statement (SMOG) (REG 139) form.
- A Declaration of Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Combined Gross Vehicle Weight (CGW) (REG 4008) form (if you are purchasing a commercial vehicle).
- Use tax and/or various other fees.
Notably:How to Register Vehicles Purchased in Private Sales - California DMV
If you purchase a vehicle from another person instead of a dealer, it is known as a private party purchase.
- A smog certification.
Notably:Imported Vehicle Registration - California DMV
If you have imported your car from a foreign county, you must follow state laws for registering your vehicle and complying with state emission standards.
- A smog certificate.
- This applies to gasoline vehicles manufactured after 1968
My understanding (from some of @HBChris' posts) is that bringing a car into CA that has previously been registered in CA is possible. And as craterface mentions, it is possible for someone moving into CA to bring their cars with them. This car, if purchased by a CA buyer, doesn't fall into either of these categories.
It would be registered for the first time in CA and because it was manufactured for use and first sold outside the US, it falls within the grey market rules. Here is a quote from the cite I linked to above: "1968 to 1974: California does not recommend the purchase or importation of these years of NON-USA vehicles, even if currently registered in another state. These vehicles require compliance with USEPA requirements in effect on the specific date of 11/15/1972...Today, this requirement, while not impossible to meet, would require testing expenses and modifications that far exceed most vehicles value and would make little sense from a collectors standpoint to attempt."
Frankly, I'm surprised the seller is so emphatic that there is no issue here.
Norm Walters had bought & imported a Bristol 1968 Neue Klasse 1800Ti from France & wasn't able to register it in CA. I wanted to buy it, it still came to the Northeast purchased by a gentleman in Vermont.
Never forget the Canepa Conundrum..... California law states that a car that can not be registered in California must leave California.
My comment today on BAT:
Hello samboss- What you say and I will quote you is certainly completely different from what the California Department of Vehicles says and I will quote them.
samboss:
“the registration process for California is simple without any further steps necessary. ”
California DMV:
“California does not recommend the purchase or importation of these years of NON-USA vehicles, even if currently registered in another state. These vehicles require compliance with USEPA requirements in effect on the specific date of 11/15/1972. This provision when written, was considered by the California legislature as a gradual phase-out of very dirty “non-collectable” types of imports, as this specific requirement was understood to become increasingly difficult to meet. Today, this requirement, while not impossible to meet, would require testing expenses and modifications that far exceed most vehicles value and would make little sense from a collectors standpoint to attempt.
Some limited exemptions apply to individuals moving to California with vehicles of these years registered in their home state for at least a year before moving to California.”
I think it’s time to ask the simple question- Have you personally registered a gray market car in California that was not in your name when you brought it into California?
For California residents that are required to self report any legal or financial disputes/issues as a condition of holding a licence (Legal or Financial professions come to mind) the idea of having a Montana license plate and getting accused of tax evasion is unacceptable.
Suggest you check out the California DMV web page for out of state registration violators. California wants their money.
https://www.chp.ca.gov/Notify-CHP/chp-reg-(Out-of-State-Registration-Violators)#chpregForm
It’s a lovely car – GLWTA
This comment's likes: 0
My comment today on BAT:
Hello samboss- What you say and I will quote you is certainly completely different from what the California Department of Vehicles says and I will quote them.
samboss:
“the registration process for California is simple without any further steps necessary. ”
California DMV:
“California does not recommend the purchase or importation of these years of NON-USA vehicles, even if currently registered in another state. These vehicles require compliance with USEPA requirements in effect on the specific date of 11/15/1972. This provision when written, was considered by the California legislature as a gradual phase-out of very dirty “non-collectable” types of imports, as this specific requirement was understood to become increasingly difficult to meet. Today, this requirement, while not impossible to meet, would require testing expenses and modifications that far exceed most vehicles value and would make little sense from a collectors standpoint to attempt.
Some limited exemptions apply to individuals moving to California with vehicles of these years registered in their home state for at least a year before moving to California.”
I think it’s time to ask the simple question- Have you personally registered a gray market car in California that was not in your name when you brought it into California?
For California residents that are required to self report any legal or financial disputes/issues as a condition of holding a licence (Legal or Financial professions come to mind) the idea of having a Montana license plate and getting accused of tax evasion is unacceptable.
Suggest you check out the California DMV web page for out of state registration violators. California wants their money.
https://www.chp.ca.gov/Notify-CHP/chp-reg-(Out-of-State-Registration-Violators)#chpregForm
It’s a lovely car – GLWTA
This comment's likes: 0
i just asked a simple question - if its so simple to register it in CA, why does it have a Montana title.
7:15 pm
I’m calling it.
Grifter..
GLWTA…
This 1972 Ferrari Dino was manufactured in March 1972 and is said to be the first 246 GTS model completed for the US market. Delivered new to Bill Harrah’s Modern Classic Motors in Reno, Nevada, it remained with a single owner in Irvine, California from 1978 to 1998.
Nice Dino….
This comment's likes: 3
Mar 4 at 4:07 PM
samboss (The Seller) This author's likes: 350
Hello @Sfdon yes, the 1972 Dino is the car I titled without any issues and a few other buyers who bought cars from me who were located in California also registered the cars without any issues.
I’m calling it.
Grifter..
GLWTA…
This 1972 Ferrari Dino was manufactured in March 1972 and is said to be the first 246 GTS model completed for the US market. Delivered new to Bill Harrah’s Modern Classic Motors in Reno, Nevada, it remained with a single owner in Irvine, California from 1978 to 1998.
Nice Dino….
This comment's likes: 3
Mar 4 at 4:07 PM
samboss (The Seller) This author's likes: 350
Hello @Sfdon yes, the 1972 Dino is the car I titled without any issues and a few other buyers who bought cars from me who were located in California also registered the cars without any issues.
m5toureg
Well-Known Member
@sfdon - so that 1972 Ferrari Dino is in fact an US market car whereas that beautiful golf E9
= is NOT = defined by the VIN = agreed !?
Irrespective of what the rules of the DMV for the registration of cars in California do say or do not say.
To me that appears to be the, point jumping‘ and I am honestly somehow
,dazed and confused‘ by all the arguments back and force, if indeed this -to me- appears
to be the basic issue here ?! What is it that I do not understand ??
= is NOT = defined by the VIN = agreed !?
Irrespective of what the rules of the DMV for the registration of cars in California do say or do not say.
To me that appears to be the, point jumping‘ and I am honestly somehow
,dazed and confused‘ by all the arguments back and force, if indeed this -to me- appears
to be the basic issue here ?! What is it that I do not understand ??
Seller states he registered his Gray Market dino in California no problem.
BAT ad for that car states car is US model.
I’m done with this….
BAT ad for that car states car is US model.
I’m done with this….
m5toureg
Well-Known Member
„“1972 Ferrari Dino was manufactured in March 1972 and is said to be the first 246 GTS model completed for the US market. Delivered new to Bill Harrah’s Modern Classic Motors in Reno, Nevada.““ = NEW car (!!)
completed for the US market.
BaT presentation starts with „This 1974 BMW 3.0CSi carrying chassis #2265652 was produced on March 7, 1973, and initially delivered in Leverkusen, Germany.“
Backed up by a BMW Classic Certificate, showing the delivering retailer in Leverkusen, Germany.
VIN range E9 3.0 CSI ECE = 226 0001 > 226 6506
Last edited:
I saw that...
Samboss has been doing this with euro cars for a while, so Id like to think when he mentions its possible he somehow has a way... but who knows, lots of these European sellers or in his case essentially an affiliate for European sellers( that's all he is, the idea of him saying he aquired the coupe then got it restored as if its his car isn't really true, while I don't believe he outright says it, it is very clear he is an agent for Oldenzall and directly receives their stock to sell here. Oldenzall finished that car, sent it directly here and it was immediately listed. Who owns what or how they work it out IDK but that's my observation). Anyway.... as I was saying the European sellers love to say everything is easy, cheap, etc. Theres an E9 seller in Germany that loves to consistently tell bidders he can ship them their E9 for under $4,000. This is Impossible. Unless of course you want your e9 to be valued and treated as a $5k car.
Either way its a beautiful car, I have no idea how the California registration process works but it is kind of exhausting seeing EVERY single E9, or euro car in general, auction get cluttered up with California drama.
When my Euro Polaris goes up next week Ill be waiting for the California comments
Either way its a beautiful car, I have no idea how the California registration process works but it is kind of exhausting seeing EVERY single E9, or euro car in general, auction get cluttered up with California drama.
When my Euro Polaris goes up next week Ill be waiting for the California comments