Fair Market Value of E9 - Insurance Company is offering me $12k

[3germancars]

While sitting still on the DC Beltway on 12-13-12, my pristine (has won several show awards at BMW historic concours events) 1973 3.0 CS was hit from behind by a PT Cruiser and pushed me into a Ford F-150 in front.

My insurance company (Hagerty) appraiser valued the damage at $13,680.35 Harleysville Insurance (carrier of idiot driver) estimated the damage at $12,767.46

Harleysville is offering me $12,170 per Audatex based against against ONE jalopy in Washington state for sale at $17,250, less $4,905 in damages to my car, which I didn't cause.

On 12-27-12, I e-mailed Harleysville seven recent sales (provided pdf's and copies of all of the sales) of my car from Autotrader.com, Roadfly.com and eBay with an AVERAGE price of $27,765. I also forwarded her on the same day six cars (same model) for sale on Roadfly.com, Classicbimmerparts.com, Hemmings Motor News and Hunting Ridge Motors, with an AVERAGE asking price of $27,417.

NADA (http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1973/BMW/3-0CS/2-Door-Coupe/Values/Print) values the car at $24,500.

Hargerty - (http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSear/Report?vc=1330523) values a type 2 condition car at $30,000.

NADA Classic ar Guide for 1973 3.0 CS values them at an AVERAGE of $23,600 to a high of
$33,800.

Has anyone been successful in fighting for a Fair Market Value with an insurance company? I want the repairs based against a FMV, so my car can be fixed or worse case, be offered enough monies for a replacement car - not a project car for $12k.

 

[echappe]

A friend just sold his immaculate 2800CS for 36K. It was on Fleabay 1 day with a buy it now price

 

[Stevehose]

Very sorry to hear this, this is all of our's worst nightmare. Like echappe says, maybe some ebay past sales would help, as well as contacting Mark Starr at Hunting Ridge, Peter S, Carl N et al maybe they can write you an expert letter of some sort.

 

[rb1971]

I had this problem with my insurer. American Classic was willing to write me a stated value policy of $75k (granted my car is heavily modified but I imagine a policy with a lower value would cost less) based on appraisals.

EDITED TO ADD: I paid over $5k for what turned out to be right on the borderline of a basket case (totally undriveable, lots of rust, etc.) in 2010 before I knew much about these cars. Unfortunately, insurance companies often engage in negotiation, especially for classics or other cars that are difficult to value.

 

[craterface]

Start saying your neck hurts, and perhaps they will change their tune.

I paid 24k for my coupe in the depths of the early 2010 recession, if you want another data point.

I would present even more cars to them--the ones at coupe king for example.

If this doesn't work, it is time to get the lawyers involved, sadly.

 

[jmackro]

.....it is time to get the lawyers involved, sadly.

I agree with craterface's recommendation. You can send pdf's of prior sales to the insurance companies all day long - and they can ignore them all day long. It's time to escalate.

My biggest question is: Where is Haggerty in all this? What's the sense of paying premiums to a collector car insurer if you are ultimately at the mercy of some low-budget company chosen by the moron who hit you?

 

[BP1]

Mercury stated value

I have $30k stated value with mercury. After an inspection they also quoted me prices for both $45k and $60k. Am undecided if it is worth the extra money.

 

[Lotuss7]

My experience has been to let your insurance carrier do the talking. I have never dealt directly with the other insurance company unless it was a situation where my policy didn't cover the damage. Especially in a rear end accident where fault is readily placed.

You noted you have Hagerty. I have 4 vehicles with them and each had an agreed value. Although I have never had a claim with them (touch wood!) I expect through reputation and friends experiences they will be proactive on your behalf. Let them assist in establishing the market value then have them go after the other carrier.

Oh...and how is that neck?!

JB

 

[dang]

I've dealt with older BMW's and insurance companies but not as old or unique as a coupe. The claims guy's job is to save the company money so they always start on the low side. At this point, you know more about the car then they do. As you show them more and more proof that the car is worth more and as more time passes, they should start to come around. DON'T SIGN ANYTHING!, but you probably already knew that.

When I settled for a '72tii years ago they started at $800 (the car didn't look very good to start with). By the time we ended the deal they pay out $2500 and I kept the car.

Recently my son was hit in his E30 318i. He had lots of upgrades, very clean car and its getting harder to find a nice later E30. Their claims guy said "he talked to an expert on these cars and he said its worth about $1000". BS. I told him I've owned over 30 BMW's in my life and buy salvage vehicles for a living so lets just talk real numbers and get this over with. The next thing he said was "I can pay $1950 plus tax and registration costs". We ended up with about $2200 and the car, then had a friend fix it for $800. He's still driving the car today.

Be patient and make sure you control the conversations in a tactful way...

Dan

 

[Arde]

I am confused. If you have agreed value with Hagerty, won't they pay you the minimum between that value and the repair cost?

 

[66toaster]

Fair Value

Fair value = unfair value. Always have policy state "Agreed Value." Are they totalling the car or just arguing what it will cost to repair? If you do repair & keep the car, you can also try to get "diminished value."

Last summer my DB7 got backed into by a p/u truck. Driver had Mercury Insurance. Fast payer with no questions asked, even after I submitted a more realistic (higher) repair estimate than what MI got.

 

[Dave L]

Insurance value...

Maybe I am reading the original posting wrong, but from what I read you and the insurance companies are talking about two different things. You said "...(Hagerty) appraiser valued the damage at $13,680.35 Harleysville Insurance (carrier of idiot driver) estimated the damage at $12,767.46". Those both are "damage estimates" thats the estimated cost of repairing the car, not replacing the car. They are not saying the car is worth 12K, only that the repair is worth 12K. Since the estimated damage repair cost does not exceed the replacement value, then they will offer repair cost. I would go to a few repair shops with all the photos you can come up with and get a few independent estimates yourself, the you have ammunition to fight with. A similar event happened to me with an e28 and I was able to get about 30% more than the replacement value.

 

[Lotuss7]

The agreed value does two things. It establishes the value you will be paid should the car be a total loss. It also establishes a value to evaluate at what threshold a vehicle may be considered a total loss.



Again, If repair is the path you are dealing with estimates. If I am correct you can work solely with Hagerty and as a classic car insurer they will help getting correct parts etc.

Good luck!

 

[verde2002]

Speaking from previous experiences the amount they offer you now is based on the visible damage and once the vehicle is taken to the body shop, disassembled and more damage is discovered the insurance company will send a second payment to the repair shop for the additional amount. My wife's brand new Mercedes was rear ended a few months ago and the damage looked minimal so when the insurance company offered $1,200 it seemed reasonable to me but once the rear bumper cover was removed alot more damage was discovered and the insurance company had to write another check for close to $4600.

I would not worry as initial payment offered is based on what damage is visible and not what the actual damage is which they will not know until the car is at the body shop.

If the car is a total loss then Hagerty has a stated agreed upon value from day one so there is no need for negotiation.

 

[rsporsche]

i have to agree with Arde and a couple of others. where is Hagerty's? i would remind them that if you can't get the value from the other company, you will pursue them for the balance ... hopefully that will get them into the action.

Dave L, i think you missed something, didn't i read that Hagerty's appraised the damage at 13xxx and the other insurance company valued the damage at 46xx, and the value at 12xxx?

 

[Honolulu]

I fought that battle with Allstate over my '72 tii, which had been looking pretty nice. I had only collision/comprehensive, so maybe my experience is not just what we need here, but I think it's worth something...

The other guy (who rear ended me and stuffed me into the car in front) was also with Allstate, which perhaps simplified things. The body shop presented an estimate for some $5500; Allstate wanted to declare a total loss and cash me out around half that. They based this offer on one, rusty sh*tbox carbed car that I'd seen several months earlier.

I gathered my ammunition from sales listings in the Roundel, and the tii Register; I described the differences between the carbed and injected models; I noted the relatively low production numbers of the tii and their rarity.

The adjuster called twice with low offers and we had words each time. Third call was to tell me the check was in the mail and to sign and return some form. I got about $5500, all of which went to the body shop, the car was fixed and repainted, and I was happy except that the shop took a year to the day to complete the work. Toward the end I would walk the quarter mile from my office and camp on the head guy's lunch until he came in from the work area for it. We'd have a discussion centering on his promises of the previous day and lack of progress to that hour.

Generally, you have to show them what they ought to know, as I did. Don't give up. Get your ammunition, as you have. Last, don't let them off the hook.

I do note, though, that the two companies have given damage estimates rather than full-value write-off.

One more thing from a decades-long proprietor of a large shop (not me): if they don't want to play ball, tell them to find a replacement car of equal condition. Let them go to Coupeking, LaJolla or wherever. That will turn their heads.

 

[rsporsche]

One more thing from a decades-long proprietor of a large shop (not me): if they don't want to play ball, tell them to find a replacement car of equal condition. Let them go to Coupeking, LaJolla or wherever. That will turn their heads.

+1 ... this is great advice.

 

[Lotuss7]

Again....not sure this is so complicated. You are insured by Hagerty. They are obligated to repair your car under the concept of uninsured motorist (California)

Put this in Hagerty's court. End game. Put your energy here. You have not said what your agreed value was...but if it is close or below the estimate to repair you better start tap dancing! If you have a reasonable buffer just take the repair to Hagerty and get on with it.

 

[verde2002]

Our secret agent friend started a thread and disappeared. The man is a 5 year member of this forum and this was his first post????

 

[m_thompson]

I have had several issues with insurance companies about the cost of repairs and the value of cars. My just restored 2002 got hit by a truck and damaged a new fender and new bumper. The other driver's insurance company called to say that since the car was so old they would not try to fix it, just total it. The offered an insignificant amount of money for the "totaled" car. I eventually got them to send an independant adjuster to look at the car. He asked me to move it to an open area so he could take pictures of it for his personal collection. He was a great advocate and we agreed on a reasonable amount for repairs.

My wife's car got hit by an uninsured driver while she was stopped at a red light. The first offer from the insurance company for the totaled car was insulting. We eventually agreeed on a reasonable amount after we sent them lots of comparable car sales information.

My '72 CS got dinged on the rear bumper by a teenager who had her licence for three weeks. They other driver's insurance company offered a few hundred for the repairs, but we evenrually negotiated a reasonable amount.