okay friends in Florida ... i know you are ready (or soon will be), best wishes to all of our friends in Florida, their families, property and cars. here's hoping it doesn't linger
here we go again - Milton
- Thread starter rsporsche
- Start date
Yes this sucks. Evacuating to West Palm, or somewhere. We moved everything up to the main level. Everything.
Cars all moved. Hoping roof stays on house and storage building/garage.
Cars all moved. Hoping roof stays on house and storage building/garage.
Good luck, fellas.
Here in Jacksonville, Helene didn't do much with only 0.8" rain and some winds. Milton will be somewhat south of Orlando but is large and powerful. We are seeing projections of up to 8" rain and lots of wind. Lots of yard things to secure yet.
Ian
Ian
Best of wishes to all our friends in Florida and the south east!
@Stevehose are you able to evacuate? Cars and awesome wooden boat secure/on higher ground? Hoping for the best for you
Steve posted a pic on another thread with his car covered on the 5th floor of a parking garage ... no info on the awesome wooden boat ...
now is time for best wishes and safe and careful moments, but sometime i would appreciate to be englighted by the experts on why this happens once and again, i.e. you build and live in wood houses, is that the best way to fight these phenomenon?
i know sometimes it is a cultural thing, sometimes it has to do whith what is available in the construction market, and maybe cost/price questions, it might also have some connection with the idea of not owning a property for a long time, and the culture of living in different places.
it might also have something to do with the fact that in some cases the resilience of a wood structure is better, or with the fact that a concrete house will not survive either, again i do not know
i am a complete ignorant on this, but it puzzles me everytime this happens, and it happens frequently
we have had floods in the past, 1967, 1985,...high destruction, lots of casualties, but infrastructures were designed and put in place, money spent, then similar conditions in 2002 made little to no damage, we learned the lesson
flood is not a hurricane, i am not comparing,
for example our beautiful coastal road is damaged every winter, despite we improve the barriers, there is always damage, repairs, road closed for weeks,... you can not tell the sea to behave...
isn´t civil engineers or authorities planning anything ? all efforts are in vain ?
i would appreciate your vision
stay safe and good luck
i know sometimes it is a cultural thing, sometimes it has to do whith what is available in the construction market, and maybe cost/price questions, it might also have some connection with the idea of not owning a property for a long time, and the culture of living in different places.
it might also have something to do with the fact that in some cases the resilience of a wood structure is better, or with the fact that a concrete house will not survive either, again i do not know
i am a complete ignorant on this, but it puzzles me everytime this happens, and it happens frequently
we have had floods in the past, 1967, 1985,...high destruction, lots of casualties, but infrastructures were designed and put in place, money spent, then similar conditions in 2002 made little to no damage, we learned the lesson
flood is not a hurricane, i am not comparing,
for example our beautiful coastal road is damaged every winter, despite we improve the barriers, there is always damage, repairs, road closed for weeks,... you can not tell the sea to behave...
isn´t civil engineers or authorities planning anything ? all efforts are in vain ?
i would appreciate your vision
stay safe and good luck
Glad you are getting out - looks like your little island is going to get walloped again.
I think Steve is headed for Ft Lauderdale.
Jesus,
for someone who grew up in the state of Louisiana and lived less than 60 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, weather patterns determine where a hurricane happens - where i grew up, i remember 1964 (Hilda), 1965 (Betsy), 1969 (Camille) ... and then we went a long time before any significant storms - 2005 (Katrina). the problem is, you never know where a storm is going to land ... they change directions. surely Florida is a peninsula that divides the Atlantic from the Gulf of Mexico and is, more often than not, in harms way. but it has beautiful beaches.
there have been changes to construction practices over the last 20 years trying to let storm surges flow thru the bottom while lifting the residence / business up, but the higher you go, the more wind forces do damage. concrete or steel framing is more durable, but is probably 3 or 4 times the initial cost and are more suited to larger structures. the other side of the discussion is that residential construction is not setup to support the complexity of concrete (other than foundations) or structural steel framing. on the other hand, the changes in window manufacturing as well as in stronger siding materials has made a huge difference. the bottom line is what works for water doesn't always work for wind (positive and negative wind forces). you do have a good point though, and with the rising insurance costs (both for wind and separate for water), it is likely going to dictate some change in the ability to build / own the single family residence near beachfront property along all southern US coasts.
for someone who grew up in the state of Louisiana and lived less than 60 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, weather patterns determine where a hurricane happens - where i grew up, i remember 1964 (Hilda), 1965 (Betsy), 1969 (Camille) ... and then we went a long time before any significant storms - 2005 (Katrina). the problem is, you never know where a storm is going to land ... they change directions. surely Florida is a peninsula that divides the Atlantic from the Gulf of Mexico and is, more often than not, in harms way. but it has beautiful beaches.
there have been changes to construction practices over the last 20 years trying to let storm surges flow thru the bottom while lifting the residence / business up, but the higher you go, the more wind forces do damage. concrete or steel framing is more durable, but is probably 3 or 4 times the initial cost and are more suited to larger structures. the other side of the discussion is that residential construction is not setup to support the complexity of concrete (other than foundations) or structural steel framing. on the other hand, the changes in window manufacturing as well as in stronger siding materials has made a huge difference. the bottom line is what works for water doesn't always work for wind (positive and negative wind forces). you do have a good point though, and with the rising insurance costs (both for wind and separate for water), it is likely going to dictate some change in the ability to build / own the single family residence near beachfront property along all southern US coasts.
Some say engineering is the art of managing tradeoffs. In Silicon Valley (suburban) most residential homes are wood above the foundation. It is actually better than bricks for earthquakes, cheaper, and easier to repair. In San Francisco larger buildings are of course steel and other materials. Multi-family homes in San Francisco are made of wood and have insidious noise problems that lead to constant fights between upstairs and downstairs neighbors over simple stuff like walking...
Water will damage (over the long term) both wood and cement structures, so no free lunches there. Exposed steel in cement also rusts and becomes a structural problem.
If the location and land are expensive, then you can view destructive events as part of a renewal process that gives you the chance to build something better. Look at old buildings in NY city where most people rent, poor plumbing, uneven stairs and floors, poor sanitation, no parking garage, no garbage storage, wouldn't it be nice to have a renewal process perhaps driven by expiration dates of buildings or nature doing the honors?
Who pays for the renewal? Partly insurers and partly developers in my experience.
Regulations are making even wood houses safer, when we built a house in Menlo Park we estimated the foundation and beams would last 100 years:
New item by Ariel
photos.app.goo.gl
New item by Ariel
photos.app.goo.gl
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In Europe, construction is done differently in different countries, so i will comment only my side of it
92% of single-family homes are built with a reinforced concrete structure, including the roof (for the last 70 years this has been the trend)
the remaining 6% are built with a wood structure
the remaining 2% use a steel structure
60% of concrete houses are closed with bricks or equivalent ceramic materials
40% are closed with prefabricated solutions made of mixed technical materials
80% of wooden houses are closed with wood
houses can have 1, 2 or 3 floors, and the garage can be built above or below ground level; the foundations are always made of reinforced concrete, even for Steel structure
in this area there are no earthquakes or hurricanes, but it can rain a lot, water drainage systems are very important and are executed seriously (this does not happen in other parts of Spain where it rains less)
The cost of land is high (building density is very high because building is allowed in very few places)
it is said that ideally for a new house the cost of the floor should not be higher than 35% of the total, but in many cases could reach up to 50%
generally speaking an average person would not accept a wood house, second hand values for wood houses are very low
92% of single-family homes are built with a reinforced concrete structure, including the roof (for the last 70 years this has been the trend)
the remaining 6% are built with a wood structure
the remaining 2% use a steel structure
60% of concrete houses are closed with bricks or equivalent ceramic materials
40% are closed with prefabricated solutions made of mixed technical materials
80% of wooden houses are closed with wood
houses can have 1, 2 or 3 floors, and the garage can be built above or below ground level; the foundations are always made of reinforced concrete, even for Steel structure
in this area there are no earthquakes or hurricanes, but it can rain a lot, water drainage systems are very important and are executed seriously (this does not happen in other parts of Spain where it rains less)
The cost of land is high (building density is very high because building is allowed in very few places)
it is said that ideally for a new house the cost of the floor should not be higher than 35% of the total, but in many cases could reach up to 50%
generally speaking an average person would not accept a wood house, second hand values for wood houses are very low
its all predicated on the construction norms of an area. in the USA, wood is much cheaper than concrete and readily available - the labor to place concrete structure is much more expensive and specialized. foundations are either poured concrete walls or reinforced concrete block (CMU) retaining walls with concrete slabs at grade - all elevated floors are wood construction - longer spans might have light steel. commercial construction primarily uses concrete or steel for structure. residential exterior wall cladding is either brick or siding - in hurricane prone areas most siding is a cementitious board such as James Hardie. Commercial siding in highrise / midrise buildings (residential / hotel) is generally CMU block with stucco or Hardie board.
Jim Stone
Well-Known Member
Thinking of those in harms way. Tread safe.
Forecasters were incredibly accurate on Hellene....hope they are not on this one. I wish hope was a strategy. Everyone be safe.
with the position of the jet stream ... i've got the feeling they are going to be correct here also (unfortunately)
Made it to Boca thanks. It won't be pretty for Longboat and Siesta Keys. Boat is at a storage place next to a concrete structure, shrinkwrapped, and as secure as possible from wind. Thanks for asking hope all goes well for you but I think this is our Ian moment.
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Fingers crossed that the storm abates quickly...meanwhile stay safe! Our thoughts are with all of you and we are hopeful the news will be good.
When I woke up Friday morning before last, about 5:30am, all I could think about was The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald..."does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the wind turns the minutes to hours..." Hoping all goes safely for all of you FL folks, and your minutes are minutes...