johanaxelson
Well-Known Member
No problem sir, I am sure others will pipe in. Interesting topic.
Should maybe have its own thread though?
Should maybe have its own thread though?
Installed the Mega Squirt today...
- Thread starter sfdon
- Start date
Johan,
Fuel regulator does not need to be adjustable. However, you do need to know what your fuel pressure is and what cc/min your injectors are rated. I had the Bosch 280 150 715 injectors which are 152.4 cc/min for a fuel pressure of 43.5 psi. If your pressure is different then you need to use a formula to get the actual cc/min delivery. This number is entered into the MS setup software.
newrate = oldrate x sqrt (newpressure/oldpressure)
For example, in my case oldrate is 152.4, oldpressure 43.5, new pressure (your condition) and then you use the newrate in the MS program.
Existing fuel pump should be ok.
Distributor is fine. If I remember correctly, there is no vacuum retard/advance on this engine. MS will handle all the spark advance/timing. On my 3.0 I had to disable the centrifugal weights inside the distributor.
O2 sensor needs to be wideband. You will also need a separate controller for the O2 sensor, which then interfaces with the MS ECU. I use the Innovate LC1. Don, should be able to tell you what he used.
MAF (hotwire). With the PNP B55 setup it may need to remain. Again, Don, may know this. Alternatively, MS does not require a MAF. Instead, it uses MAP (manifold air pressure). This involves running a vacuum hose from the manifold to the MS ECU. The big caveat is that you will probably want a second MAP, in addition to the MAP sensor that is mounted on the ECU board, because of the mountains (you drive in Switerland?). With a single MAP sensor the barometric air pressure is taken when the car is started, thereafter it only measures manifold pressure. So, if you then drive up a mountain pass, the system will not work well. With the second MAP sensor it continually measures baro pressure and makes the appropriate adjustments to the air density calculations. This did involve soldering a couple of wires on the main board. Again, I do not know how the wiring for the second sensor would tie into the 55 pin wiring connector. You may need to run additional wires directly to the ECU.
Also, if you went with the MAP you could go back to the stock D-jet air filter box and bellows - a more original look.
TPS should be ok.
Idle air valve ok. I think the motronic 1.3 setup uses the 3-wire bosch valve, which MS can operate.
General: You will definitely need to get into mapping out the existing wiring to the 55 pin connector and determining what additional wires may need to be added that bypass this connector. From the B55 photo it looks like you can do some custom wiring inside the MS box to make appropriate connections between the MS ECU and the correct pin on the 55 pin bosch connector.
You will also need time to build the spark, fuel, and AFR tables - then test and dyno time. I will eventually have some tables I can share. My engine may be similar enough for you to use the same tables (M30B35, bored to first oversize, lightened flywheel, but otherwise a stock engine).
I hope this helps.
Fuel regulator does not need to be adjustable. However, you do need to know what your fuel pressure is and what cc/min your injectors are rated. I had the Bosch 280 150 715 injectors which are 152.4 cc/min for a fuel pressure of 43.5 psi. If your pressure is different then you need to use a formula to get the actual cc/min delivery. This number is entered into the MS setup software.
newrate = oldrate x sqrt (newpressure/oldpressure)
For example, in my case oldrate is 152.4, oldpressure 43.5, new pressure (your condition) and then you use the newrate in the MS program.
Existing fuel pump should be ok.
Distributor is fine. If I remember correctly, there is no vacuum retard/advance on this engine. MS will handle all the spark advance/timing. On my 3.0 I had to disable the centrifugal weights inside the distributor.
O2 sensor needs to be wideband. You will also need a separate controller for the O2 sensor, which then interfaces with the MS ECU. I use the Innovate LC1. Don, should be able to tell you what he used.
MAF (hotwire). With the PNP B55 setup it may need to remain. Again, Don, may know this. Alternatively, MS does not require a MAF. Instead, it uses MAP (manifold air pressure). This involves running a vacuum hose from the manifold to the MS ECU. The big caveat is that you will probably want a second MAP, in addition to the MAP sensor that is mounted on the ECU board, because of the mountains (you drive in Switerland?). With a single MAP sensor the barometric air pressure is taken when the car is started, thereafter it only measures manifold pressure. So, if you then drive up a mountain pass, the system will not work well. With the second MAP sensor it continually measures baro pressure and makes the appropriate adjustments to the air density calculations. This did involve soldering a couple of wires on the main board. Again, I do not know how the wiring for the second sensor would tie into the 55 pin wiring connector. You may need to run additional wires directly to the ECU.
Also, if you went with the MAP you could go back to the stock D-jet air filter box and bellows - a more original look.
TPS should be ok.
Idle air valve ok. I think the motronic 1.3 setup uses the 3-wire bosch valve, which MS can operate.
General: You will definitely need to get into mapping out the existing wiring to the 55 pin connector and determining what additional wires may need to be added that bypass this connector. From the B55 photo it looks like you can do some custom wiring inside the MS box to make appropriate connections between the MS ECU and the correct pin on the 55 pin bosch connector.
You will also need time to build the spark, fuel, and AFR tables - then test and dyno time. I will eventually have some tables I can share. My engine may be similar enough for you to use the same tables (M30B35, bored to first oversize, lightened flywheel, but otherwise a stock engine).
I hope this helps.
johanaxelson
Well-Known Member
Oh that helps a lot. Many thanks. Really helps to estimate complexity. Which does not seem too high installation wise anyway. Configuring is another matter.
I am not too scared of the electronics, I have friends with good knowledge to ask there and help put stuff together. And I know the basics myself.
I do drive in the mountain passes, very enjoyable with that car
Dual MAPs generally does seem like a good idea.
Am pretty sure the idle valve has three cables.
And hopefully there is lots of mapping info on various boards etc.
Otherwise it may be a problem to find someone good enough with that engine to help out.
Thanks again, Johan
I am not too scared of the electronics, I have friends with good knowledge to ask there and help put stuff together. And I know the basics myself.
I do drive in the mountain passes, very enjoyable with that car
Dual MAPs generally does seem like a good idea.Am pretty sure the idle valve has three cables.
And hopefully there is lots of mapping info on various boards etc.
Otherwise it may be a problem to find someone good enough with that engine to help out.
Thanks again, Johan
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The verdict!
Guys, all I can say is that this upgrade was worth almost as much as the engine swap itself. The improvements in power, driveability and refinement are astounding, and I think I've only scratched the surface of Megasquirt's capabilities! I will try to post more info and a video/pictures this weekend so others can see. So many thanks to David at eCartoys for his laptop wizardry, Don Lawrence and Coupeking for making this happen.
I simply cannot believe this is the same car that was running dual Zeniths's a year ago. More importanly, this is what fuel injection should be and I simply wasn't getting those results before with AFM and Motronic 1.3.
Long live Megasquirt.
Guys, all I can say is that this upgrade was worth almost as much as the engine swap itself. The improvements in power, driveability and refinement are astounding, and I think I've only scratched the surface of Megasquirt's capabilities! I will try to post more info and a video/pictures this weekend so others can see. So many thanks to David at eCartoys for his laptop wizardry, Don Lawrence and Coupeking for making this happen.
I simply cannot believe this is the same car that was running dual Zeniths's a year ago. More importanly, this is what fuel injection should be and I simply wasn't getting those results before with AFM and Motronic 1.3.
Long live Megasquirt.
pamp
Well-Known Member
H. Balancer
Is this the part? I was saving it for some reason...
Just to comment, the mega squirt is limited, the complaint I hear is that boost applications are not supported. True?
Is this the part? I was saving it for some reason...
Just to comment, the mega squirt is limited, the complaint I hear is that boost applications are not supported. True?
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TodB
Well-Known Member
MS
simply cannot believe this is the same car that was running dual Zeniths's a year ago. More importantly, this is what fuel injection should be and I simply wasn't getting those results before with AFM and Motronic 1.3.
Yea, but do you like it:-D
Any Dyno results?
Glad it all worked out.
simply cannot believe this is the same car that was running dual Zeniths's a year ago. More importantly, this is what fuel injection should be and I simply wasn't getting those results before with AFM and Motronic 1.3.
Yea, but do you like it:-D
Any Dyno results?
Glad it all worked out.
The megasquirt now comes with a stock 55 pin connector just like a BMW.
You need to swap 2 wires for the TPS and add the wideband02 sensor.
Toss the AFM and connect the 2 wires for air temp to the new sensor threaded into a new 71/4" tube.
I would guess 3 hours max for the whole conversion.
Embarrasingly simple...
You need to swap 2 wires for the TPS and add the wideband02 sensor.
Toss the AFM and connect the 2 wires for air temp to the new sensor threaded into a new 71/4" tube.
I would guess 3 hours max for the whole conversion.
Embarrasingly simple...
TodB
Well-Known Member
MS
Don,
Ok, you've got my attention seeing that I am contemplating a Miller warchip/MAF conversion on my modified 535i running motronic v1 with an 059 ECU.
The cost of the Miller set up is ~$700. What would the MS cost be?
Sorry for the thread hijack...
Don,
Ok, you've got my attention seeing that I am contemplating a Miller warchip/MAF conversion on my modified 535i running motronic v1 with an 059 ECU.
The cost of the Miller set up is ~$700. What would the MS cost be?
Sorry for the thread hijack...
850? bucks which includes a plug and play unit with maps close to your engine to start with for the 55 pin pin connector- try talking to David at ecartoys@gmail. com - I'm the wrench, not the salesman!
tod,
i just did the miller war chip and maf conversion - i will have dyno results in about a week and a half, so if you can hold off till then i can tell you exactly what difference they will make, as i also have your same engine. although the miller chip and maf VASTLY improved drivability (smooth, idle, more responsive, etc), im guessing the hp bump was pretty small (10hp would be my guess). if i hadnt JUST dropped the $700 bucks on the miller stuff, this wouldnt even be a close call - i think ms is the way to go.
alanmcg
i just did the miller war chip and maf conversion - i will have dyno results in about a week and a half, so if you can hold off till then i can tell you exactly what difference they will make, as i also have your same engine. although the miller chip and maf VASTLY improved drivability (smooth, idle, more responsive, etc), im guessing the hp bump was pretty small (10hp would be my guess). if i hadnt JUST dropped the $700 bucks on the miller stuff, this wouldnt even be a close call - i think ms is the way to go.
alanmcg
I am getting Mega Squirt along with the FI/3.5L/5spd conversion at Dynotech in Oceanside, CA. My coupe will have a custom cam and S38 ITB/Intake plenum as well. The car should be tuned and ready in a few days (fingers crossed) so I will let you know what the end result is like. I currently drive a coupe with 3.5L/1.3 motronic (for sale!) and it is about as buttery smooth and reliable as you could imagine, so I'll be able to give you all a side by side comparison.
-Walter
-Walter
Wish you were on the left coast...
Coming in a bit late but nevertheless am here now. Anyway, just want to share a bit of info on our MS box.
We started building the MS box because we tried everything (Miller, Split Second and etc) and could never get all issues addressed for our forced induction and individual throttle body setups. It is always one thing or another and it is definitely not something a regular guy can do on his own as far as tuning. That said we started out in Sept 2009 with MS2 running Extra 2.10 firmware mainly for the turbocharged engines and later added Extra 3.0.3 firmware for engines with custom individual throttle bodies (ie http://www.extrudabody.com/servlet/the-258/Kit-cln--BMW-M30-525-fdsh-528-fdsh-535/Detail). We have base maps for just about anything that can be done to the 6 cylinder engines (M20, M30, S38, M88, M90 etc).
The price of $850 includes a 55 Pin MS box with custom setup for your engine. A 7.25" 6160 Aluminum Pipe with Intake Air Temp sensor (pigtail with all weather plug included) installed. Tuning cable and Serial to USB adapter is included. Optional item is Wasted Spark Setup - $375. It comes with Electromotive 3X2 DFU, 8.5mm Spark Plug Wire Set and 6160 Aluminum Timing Cover Plate (so you can take your cap n rotor out for a clean look). This has to be ordered with the MS box as the circuit will have to be added.
If you do not have a 55 Pin engine harness we can make custom harness for you to connect to your existing engine harness so don't spend your time and $$$ to get it converted just to install MS.
On the MAP sensor in regards to altitude change, it is not that big of a deal. If you think you might be in a situation where that could happen just go for the optional $70 MAP sensor with Barometric Correction. It is realtime correction so you don't have to do a thing. I am sorry but MAF is just a waste of time and money. Besides for the NA engines we only run them in Alpha N or Hybrid Alpha N only so there is really no reason to go MAF.
Anyway, feel free to contact me direct if you need more info - gearheadhq at gmail dot com. Just a little FYI, eCarToys was sold to GearHeads HQ in 2009.
David
We started building the MS box because we tried everything (Miller, Split Second and etc) and could never get all issues addressed for our forced induction and individual throttle body setups. It is always one thing or another and it is definitely not something a regular guy can do on his own as far as tuning. That said we started out in Sept 2009 with MS2 running Extra 2.10 firmware mainly for the turbocharged engines and later added Extra 3.0.3 firmware for engines with custom individual throttle bodies (ie http://www.extrudabody.com/servlet/the-258/Kit-cln--BMW-M30-525-fdsh-528-fdsh-535/Detail). We have base maps for just about anything that can be done to the 6 cylinder engines (M20, M30, S38, M88, M90 etc).
The price of $850 includes a 55 Pin MS box with custom setup for your engine. A 7.25" 6160 Aluminum Pipe with Intake Air Temp sensor (pigtail with all weather plug included) installed. Tuning cable and Serial to USB adapter is included. Optional item is Wasted Spark Setup - $375. It comes with Electromotive 3X2 DFU, 8.5mm Spark Plug Wire Set and 6160 Aluminum Timing Cover Plate (so you can take your cap n rotor out for a clean look). This has to be ordered with the MS box as the circuit will have to be added.
If you do not have a 55 Pin engine harness we can make custom harness for you to connect to your existing engine harness so don't spend your time and $$$ to get it converted just to install MS.
On the MAP sensor in regards to altitude change, it is not that big of a deal. If you think you might be in a situation where that could happen just go for the optional $70 MAP sensor with Barometric Correction. It is realtime correction so you don't have to do a thing. I am sorry but MAF is just a waste of time and money. Besides for the NA engines we only run them in Alpha N or Hybrid Alpha N only so there is really no reason to go MAF.
Anyway, feel free to contact me direct if you need more info - gearheadhq at gmail dot com. Just a little FYI, eCarToys was sold to GearHeads HQ in 2009.
David
Clubsport_CSi
New Member
Hi David,
just wondered if you would also be able to provide maps for Alpina engines, specifically a Euro B11/3 (or equivalent B10) engine?
Thanks for your reply in advance!
Best,
Daniel
just wondered if you would also be able to provide maps for Alpina engines, specifically a Euro B11/3 (or equivalent B10) engine?
Thanks for your reply in advance!
Best,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Are you working with Max's shop in Wendelstein? We are providing the upgraded turbo and some misc parts to him and we are currently discussing Megasquirt.
If not you will need to email me your engine specs and mods so I can see if we can get you a good start up map.
Thanks.
Regards,
David
Are you working with Max's shop in Wendelstein? We are providing the upgraded turbo and some misc parts to him and we are currently discussing Megasquirt.
If not you will need to email me your engine specs and mods so I can see if we can get you a good start up map.
Thanks.
Regards,
David
pamp
Well-Known Member
Fi / ms
I apologize for my ignorance. I currently run vintage D-jet and have no issues. I started to do some research a few years ago regarding "stand alone" systems as I feel that in the future I will need to convert. Specifically the cost of the MAP / matched ECU. Unobtainium.'
I have zero expertise on the various conversions available. I saved out the balancer as I felt it may be needed for a conversion, crank trigger. Some systems seem to have required a modified balancer, drilled and filled as it were. It would be cool to see how the MS system integrates the toothed balancer with / and the crank trigger mounting.
Thanks
As a side note: A local friend who runs the MS on his Miata made the complaint regarding compatibility to his turbo application. What add -ons would he need to make him happy?
I apologize for my ignorance. I currently run vintage D-jet and have no issues. I started to do some research a few years ago regarding "stand alone" systems as I feel that in the future I will need to convert. Specifically the cost of the MAP / matched ECU. Unobtainium.'
I have zero expertise on the various conversions available. I saved out the balancer as I felt it may be needed for a conversion, crank trigger. Some systems seem to have required a modified balancer, drilled and filled as it were. It would be cool to see how the MS system integrates the toothed balancer with / and the crank trigger mounting.
Thanks
As a side note: A local friend who runs the MS on his Miata made the complaint regarding compatibility to his turbo application. What add -ons would he need to make him happy?
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pamp
Well-Known Member
OK
Sorry again,
Thanks to Sven for his previous postings and photos, answered most of my questions.
Sorry again,
Thanks to Sven for his previous postings and photos, answered most of my questions.
TodB
Well-Known Member
MS
My big question about MS is:
Is it ready for prime time in a daily driver? I am considering putting it in my E28 5 series which I drive every day. I live just south of Boston, MA. My E28 gets me to work whether (sic) the temperature is 100+ or -10 and keeps me happy at a couple of track days each Summer.
I was going to go the Miller MAF/Warchip route this Spring only because its Motronic based and the warchip provides the extra flexibility to be tuned to support or "use" the engine mods I have, which include: B34 bottom end, mild head work, high comp pistons, aggressive cam and stroker crank. Even with the Dinan "stroker" chip, I am leaving performance on the table. The Dinan chip was coded without the cam and headwork.
Now that someone is offering a Megasquirt "kit" and its moved beyond the box-o-parts-and-you-put-it-together paradigm, I am actually considering it. The product is clearly more flexible than the Miller chip and software though I am not sure I need that extended level of flexibility and/or complexity. I would favor reliability.
But is MS reliable enough for real, non southern California weather :-D, daily driver use? How involved is it to install and get properly tuned?
Thoughts?
Great thread, BTW. Long overdue.
My big question about MS is:
Is it ready for prime time in a daily driver? I am considering putting it in my E28 5 series which I drive every day. I live just south of Boston, MA. My E28 gets me to work whether (sic) the temperature is 100+ or -10 and keeps me happy at a couple of track days each Summer.
I was going to go the Miller MAF/Warchip route this Spring only because its Motronic based and the warchip provides the extra flexibility to be tuned to support or "use" the engine mods I have, which include: B34 bottom end, mild head work, high comp pistons, aggressive cam and stroker crank. Even with the Dinan "stroker" chip, I am leaving performance on the table. The Dinan chip was coded without the cam and headwork.
Now that someone is offering a Megasquirt "kit" and its moved beyond the box-o-parts-and-you-put-it-together paradigm, I am actually considering it. The product is clearly more flexible than the Miller chip and software though I am not sure I need that extended level of flexibility and/or complexity. I would favor reliability.
But is MS reliable enough for real, non southern California weather :-D, daily driver use? How involved is it to install and get properly tuned?
Thoughts?
Great thread, BTW. Long overdue.
Tod,
Been out all day and just replied your email.
MS has been around for many years and reliability has never been an issue. I guess the myth is out there that because it started out as a do it yourself kit it must not be reliable. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that a properly designed and put together MS box is just like someone using a Tec3R, AEM or whatever brand standalone ECU. They are all made with the same quality electronic and semi conductor components as the ones in today's modern factory ECUs.
The key is to get your tune right. Factories and major go faster component companies spent lots and lots of time in getting the tune right. The difference is most of them only have to worry about 1 version of the engine. If you make any modifications to your car, the ECU is not designed to adjust and adapt to the new mod and give you your bang for the mod. With Megasquirt it actually sees the benefit of your mod and allows you to adjust the parameters so you can reap the maximum bang for your mod. For those less adventurous you can let Autotune do the adjusting for you and leave it as that. For those who knows a little more you can adjust the ignition table and then Autotune to take full advantage of mods.
The best thing I like about MS is that I can have the biggest and most flexible design air intake system. I don't have to worry about accomodating the AFM or MAP restriction. The icing on the cake is it allows me to develop the craziest BIG throttle body (more to come) and not have any running or tuning issues.
All this you can do on your own. What other solutions out there can offer the same for the money?