Melted Ground Wires & Fuse Nº 4 problem

EuroE9

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
82
Reaction score
23
Location
Madrid
First of all I want to introduce myself.

My name is Carlos, I am from Madrid, Spain and a car lover since I was very young.

My father took me to be born in a BMW 2800 cs of the year 1971. I have been keeping the car in garages, industrial buildings and even chicken coops for the last 20 years because my dream has always been to restore the car that my father bought in the Canary Islands more than 50 years old and brought to the peninsula in the 80s.

Having had the car in storage for so long, some people who didn't keep it used it and unfortunately misused the car.

I have to say that the car, after a visit to the workshop to renew the brakes, do the carburettors and some electrical issue, passed the ITV last month, which filled me with pride and enthusiasm to start using it.

Some pictures of my beautiful E9 (Ignore the emblem of 3.0 csi, my father put it to show off but it really is a 2800 cs, I will change them soon):

IMG_1858.jpg
IMG_1859.jpg
IMG_1861.jpg


Now comes the problem I encountered......

Something that the electrician in my workshop did not want to face, was the burned cables that were under the steering wheel, they were all brown (earth). With a lot of patience and using the electrical diagrams in the handbook and those I found in this forum, I was able to isolate them and change them without having to disassemble the entire dashboard.


1.- Load Shedding Relay (39)
IMG_0079.jpg



2.- ChangeOver Relay (38)
IMG_0077.jpg


3.- Rear Fog Warning Switch (53)
IMG_0034.jpg



4.- Warning Lights Relay (74)
IMG_0106.jpg



6.- Heated Rear Window Switch (64)
IMG_0037.jpg

Here I show you the complete cable with the names of the systems to which they were connected (sorry for my English in the descriptions).

IMG_0130.jpg



I am not an expert in electricity but if I am very meticulous and little by little and with a lot of patience I have been able to change all the defective cables for new cables of 0.75 mm section, as indicated in the manual.

I have looked well in the forum trying to find a thread related to my problem with fuse No. 4, which I will explain below, since I do not want to repeat threads of topics that have already been studied by all of you.

The first thing to say is that when I brought the car home, fuse 4 had a 25-amp fuse instead of the 8-amp fuse that the manual indicates. This was done by some unconscious person who kept it for so many years without thinking about the consequences. . I think this is the reason for the melted ground wires. Once these cables have been replaced, and the correct fuses have been placed with their corresponding amperages as indicated in the manual, the following happens to me.

The car starts perfectly and when connecting the lights they all work perfectly (position, short, long and anti fog). The fuse only blows when the car is moving. I can be driving without turning on the lights indefinitely, but as soon as I turn on the lights, after a few meters, fuse Nº4 (8 amp) blows and the car dies and as soon as I engage the clutch, the car stops and when I turn the key the dash does not light up. The strange thing is that with the car stopped and started when the lights are connected, the fuse does not blow, the problem comes when the car begins to move.

I have thought about disassembling the fuse box and disconnecting the terminals that reach fuse Nº4 one by one and trying until I find which one makes the fuse blow when the car moves.

I have been reading this forum for years and the incredible experience that its members have, I hope you can help me, I always try to solve things without asking for help but in this case I have reached the limit of my knowledge and I hope that some kind soul can help me solve this mystery.

Thank you very much in advance to all of you, who without having written until now, have already helped me enormously in the past with the magnificent threads that currently exist.

Carlos
 
Welcome Carlos.

I'm no electrical expert myself, but reading that your car dies when you start driving it sounds to me like the voltage regulator may be dysfunctional. When you start driving, I think the voltage climbs a bit, and should be controlled (limited) by the voltage regulator.
the voltage regulator is the rectangular metal box close to the battery, next to the 2 round can relays. I think it normally has a yellow tape around it.

I may not be correct, but I think also the dynamo has an internal regulator, or at least some so. that regulator could be bad as well.

The melted brown wires are strange, but likely due to the too big fuse, allowing too big currents. The 'Too big' currents must be the result of another bad component; perhaps the voltage regulator.

I'm sure others will chime in, being more knowlegable then I am.
 
Welcome Carlos.

I'm no electrical expert myself, but reading that your car dies when you start driving it sounds to me like the voltage regulator may be dysfunctional. When you start driving, I think the voltage climbs a bit, and should be controlled (limited) by the voltage regulator.
the voltage regulator is the rectangular metal box close to the battery, next to the 2 round can relays. I think it normally has a yellow tape around it.

I may not be correct, but I think also the dynamo has an internal regulator, or at least some so. that regulator could be bad as well.

The melted brown wires are strange, but likely due to the too big fuse, allowing too big currents. The 'Too big' currents must be the result of another bad component; perhaps the voltage regulator.

I'm sure others will chime in, being more knowlegable then I am.
Hello Erik,

Thank you so much for your quick response.

What you indicate makes perfect sense, since it is something that has to do with the revolutions, what made me doubt is that when the car is on but in parking (without movement), I accelerate it a lot and that does not blow the fuse , it only jumps when it moves.

Do you know if the voltage regulator or the dynamo regulator act when the car revs up but is in parking? Or do they only work when the car is moving?

Logic tells me that these two components act when the engine revs up regardless of whether the car is moving or not, but I'm not sure.

On the other hand, how can I check if any of these two components (voltage regulator or the dynamo regulator) are failing?

Thank you very much in advance
 
good question on the functionality of the regulator(s). I think they are independent of the revs, as there is no link between the rev counter and the voltage regulator / dynamo.

When i doubted the functionality of thee parts in my own car, I brought them both to a dynamo revision company, who tested them both and judged them as OK.
 
Replace the negative battery cable. It has two connections, one directly to the engine block and one to the body near the relays. You should also refresh the collective ground wires near the relays, under the left side dash and in the trunk. These are almost always corroded in the 2002s and the '74 CS we work on.
 
There should also be a woven ground cable running from the rear of the block to the body just above the starter motor.
 

Attachments

  • block to body ground.jpg
    block to body ground.jpg
    521.5 KB · Views: 122
good question on the functionality of the regulator(s). I think they are independent of the revs, as there is no link between the rev counter and the voltage regulator / dynamo.

When i doubted the functionality of thee parts in my own car, I brought them both to a dynamo revision company, who tested them both and judged them as OK.
Thank you Erik,

Should I bring the parts alone or with the car itself? Will them check if the regulator relay works or these kind of companies only woks with dynamos?

Thank you for all intrest shown.

Carlos
 
I'd wait for others to chime in before sending parts out; as said I'm an electric noob.

But normally dynamo repair shops can diagnose the dynamo and voltage regulator as parts alone; they don't need the rest of the car for it.
 
Replace the negative battery cable. It has two connections, one directly to the engine block and one to the body near the relays. You should also refresh the collective ground wires near the relays, under the left side dash and in the trunk. These are almost always corroded in the 2002s and the '74 CS we work on.
Hello Halboyles,

Thank you very much for the replay, this are pictures of my engine bay.... on the negative from the battery there is no two connections, only one to the body...

IMG_0131.jpg
IMG_0132.jpg
IMG_0133.jpg
IMG_0134.jpg
IMG_0135.jpg
IMG_0136.jpg
IMG_0137.jpg


Also, I see no ground cable running from the rear of the block to the body just above the starter motor, maybe you can see it in the pictures...

The solution of replacing the negative battery cable and the ground from under dash and engine is related to the burned ground cables or related to the problems with fuse 4?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Carlos
 
Check the temperature of your throttle linkage. It may be your only ground now.
 
Check the temperature of your throttle linkage. It may be your only ground now.
Thank you Sfdon for your replay, unfortunately I don´t know where is located, could you please point to me by words or in a picture? Also, do you think this has something to do with the problems I am expeciencing?

Best and kind regards,

Carlos
 
I have to ask- have you spoken our friend in Espana about this?
Jesus is very knowledgeable.

In my opinion- at my shop- we would remove the harness and inspect every inch.
 
Carlos - I too had melted wiring in my car when I purchased it. Prior owner's stereo installer connected the stereo to fuse number 1, put in a 40 amp fuse, and when the owner turned up the stereo a lot of the wiring in that circuit melted. In the process of fixing these problems, I learned a lot about the wiring in our cars.

One of the first reactions to your comments is to point out that wiring melts where it has the highest resistance, which is at the ends. If you found melted wiring at one end of a wire, the other end is likely melted as well. You need to check the other end of all of those wires pictured at the bottom of your first post. The other end of the melted wires that connect to your lights when the warning light relay is engaged have probably melted too, damaging other wiring in the same harness, If so, this is why turning on your lights causes your car to die.

Secondly, the comment about replacing your battery ground cable probably arose because they can have corrosion inside the wire. If this is the case, the cable will not properly ground your battery. If you replace the wire with a braided cable, you can see if the cable becomes corroded.

Next, make sure you have the ground from the back of the engine to the body, at the back of the engine bay.
 
Further to Hal's comment, I added a ground from the battery ground at the body to the engine block (at the oil filter housing) and another from the body of the alternator to that same point on the engine block. I also added a ground across one of the motor mounts to ground the engine block to the subframe.
 
I have to ask- have you spoken our friend in Espana about this?
Jesus is very knowledgeable.

In my opinion- at my shop- we would remove the harness and inspect every inch.
Hi again,

Do you mean.... deQuincey? No, I did not have the pleasure to talk to him yet, My hope was he reads this threat and replays. I don´t want to hassle him or any of you.
Remove all harness would be the solution but to be honest at the moment it would be to expensive for my finances, but in the future it will be 100 % necessary.

Thanks so much for answer,

Carlos
 
If the wire comes off the shut off solenoid on your carburetter you can ground a live wire and blow fuse. When I got my first Bavaria 1,000,000 years ago I used to be able to change that Fuse while I was driving.
I am going to say that @deQuincey would be very glad to hear from you

And I just threw that comment out there I haven’t really looked at this thread.
 
That is definitely a problem especially as regards the starter and ignition systems.

It looks like you will need to add that cable also.
Thank you for your answer,

I am a bit concern because as far as I know the car is in original condition and no modifications has been done, Do you know is my year model has two cables out of the negative battery pole or just one? I believe my model is the second version of the first model the one with only one relay for the wiper instead of two in the first model. Regarding the ground cable from the engine to the body, I have to properly check if there is one already...
 
Carlos - I too had melted wiring in my car when I purchased it. Prior owner's stereo installer connected the stereo to fuse number 1, put in a 40 amp fuse, and when the owner turned up the stereo a lot of the wiring in that circuit melted. In the process of fixing these problems, I learned a lot about the wiring in our cars.

One of the first reactions to your comments is to point out that wiring melts where it has the highest resistance, which is at the ends. If you found melted wiring at one end of a wire, the other end is likely melted as well. You need to check the other end of all of those wires pictured at the bottom of your first post. The other end of the melted wires that connect to your lights when the warning light relay is engaged have probably melted too, damaging other wiring in the same harness, If so, this is why turning on your lights causes your car to die.

Secondly, the comment about replacing your battery ground cable probably arose because they can have corrosion inside the wire. If this is the case, the cable will not properly ground your battery. If you replace the wire with a braided cable, you can see if the cable becomes corroded.

Next, make sure you have the ground from the back of the engine to the body, at the back of the engine bay.
Reading your thread about the melted wires was what gave me the clues to what I did to replace all wires, I have check every end of every melted wire, but now, still.... When the lights are one and the car moving the fuse 4 jumps, if the car is in parking but on, and I accelerate with the lights on, there is no problem at all but as soon as I engage one gear and start moving, the fuse 4 jumps, and honestly I am a bit lost at the moment...

Regarding the ground cable of the battery could be an option but I must say that this car has very few roast and corrosion all around and this particulary cable seams very healthy, but who knows.

halboyles comment at the begining about voltage regulator or the dynamo regulator, what do you think about it.?​

 
Back
Top