My E9 burns about 1 quart of oil every tank of gas -should i use Moly E.P.?

scottevest said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdiGOdsT6TA
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Miscellaneous ramblings.

Burning hydrocarbons (a.k.a. petroleum) results in the creation of several byproducts, among them, carbon dioxide and water. In other words, some condensation is normal. Don't your other cars or cars in your neighborhood exhibit similar symptoms when they are first started on a cool morning? Remember, your car is not equipped with a catalytic converter, nor does it have computer controlled fuel mixture, so that your tailpipe residue may not exactly parallel those found in more modern cars. Per DeQuincey's thoughts, you also have an exhaust system that probably contains other expected combustion byproducts which would explain the black residue.

When the engine and exhaust heat up, you generally cannot see the condensation, but that does not mean it no longer exists. It's just been vaporized and less condensed. Of course, if you were to have a head gasket leak or a problem with the head to permit the introduction of moisture into one of the combustion chambers, you could also get condensation out the exhaust. But this is something that would likely be obvious from reading the spark plugs, hard starting and - a chronic need to top up the coolant. (You have not complained of that.)

Per DeQuincey, climate (humidity and ambient temperature) have much to do with what is pictured in your video. It is not unlike being able to see your breath on cold and humid days. The amount of condensation you see may also be a result of moisture accumulating in the exhaust system as a result of many short trips. Short trips may cause an over-accumulation of moisture that permeates the sound deadening materials packed in the rear muffler. It's why that (non-stainless) muffler tends to rust out faster than the other portions of the exhaust. In the same vein, most mufflers contain small "weep holes" that permit some of the excess moisture to leave the muffler rather pool and cause damage. All of this is why most folks recommend more frequent oil changes for short stop and go driving rather than freeway driving.

For what it's worth, we used a Mercedes Diesel for repeated short trips of one or two miles. After a while, there was so much water accumulating in the rear exhaust that you could hear it start to boil while it sat after a mile trip. The problem was resolved by a large rust hole.

Hth.
 
more answers, and again thanks

So, I figured out why my car may be running MUCH better than before. I had the shop replace the fuel filter with the clear variety. Perhaps, the old one was very clogged which may account for why when accelerating previously it seemed to have a brief interruption in acceleration at around 4200 rpm or so, but now it is strong all the way to redline. Feels like a brand new car. How simple was that? I hope my gas tank is not rusty. The records show it was replaced awhile ago.

The temp is never higher than about 1/4" (around 4pm if it were a clock) over the blue part, no matter how hard/long/far I drive it. Just steady, which is just like my 635 was.

I live in mountain dessert climate, about 6000 ft altitude and typically very dry, although lately it has been humid, which for us is odd.

I just noticed that the papers in the glove box were wet, so water is seeping in there somehow, and I need to figure it out and ensure it doesn't happen.

The car has no visible rust whatsoever, and I don't want that to change.

I will be looking into the warm up/choke stuff later, and constantly checking my oil levels. I do think the smoke this am was water since if it was fuel I would not have been able to stand behind car without choking myself.

I had my wife look carefully while I was accelerating and downshifting and she saw NO smoke whatsoever, which was not the case before the "work" was done, so perhaps the syncing carbs and new fuel filter really did help.

I am wondering if replacing the fuel filter may have helped with the oil consumption too.

I checked the oil this am before starting the car, and it was just under the middle notch, so I will drive again today, not quite as far, but at least 1/2 tank, 100 miles or so, and see what happens.

The coolant level was fine when I got the car, but I recently topped it off. I will keep an eye on it.

BTW, what kind of gas mileage should I expect to get on under highway and city. On first tank of gas, I got about 13.7 mpg. I drove it fairly hard, mostly city driving, so about what I would expect.

Again, much thanks for all he help. You guys clearly know your stuff.
 
Typical city driving with zenith carbs can easily be 12-13 mpg. I get 20 on the highway in fifth doing 75-80. HTH.
 
scottevest said:
BTW, what kind of gas mileage should I expect to get on under highway and city. On first tank of gas, I got about 13.7 mpg. I drove it fairly hard, mostly city driving, so about what I would expect.

I live in mountain dessert climate . . .
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For obvious reasons, mountainous terrain might yield lower economy figures as compared to those of us who hover near flat sea level. Coupling that with what you describe as "fairly hard" driving, does not make for high fuel economy numbers.

Given the ages of our cars, states of tune and modification, and different driving styles, fuel economy comparisons can be very misleading. Even if you had two comparably equipped vehicles, those of us who feel compelled to drag two sets of tools, golf clubs and groceries whenever and where ever we drive, are probably going to get different results.

Interestingly enough,R&T reported "19 mpg" for the 2800 and "17mpg" average for the 3.0 E9s. (see below).
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Scott,

It's likely the previous owner didn't drive it much; the reason he sold. In doing so, gunk ( unburned oil, carbon buildup, etc) accumulated.

By running the car hard you probably blew a bunch of crap out. BMW in the Owner's manual says to do just that. ( 4500-5500 rpm). Other owners call it an Italian tune-up- downshifting hard. Oldtimers knew this when the cars were new, did it, before they took in to the shop.

I cannot over emphasize, preventative maintenance. If I had to jump in mine to travel for some unknown reason, I wouldn't hesitate. If you're running 200 miles, you should have a great deal of comfort as well.

Sounds like you're having fun and enjoying life in the new ( to you ) coupe!

p.s. After driving yours, I had to go through all my steering; only had to tighten the wheel bearings up! ( Maybe a tire swap and balance too) I-10 is calling me; after it cools down to 90 degrees outside. Thanks for the comparision!
 
More data

The ride continues. I showed the car to a mechanic I trust, he is excited to help out, but didn't have time. He recommended http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/ Marvel Mystery Oil in both the gas tank and some in the oil too. Do you agree?

He said it was burning some oil, but not a ton, and not to worry about it yet.

I did notice that after idling for about 3-5 minutes, when I pulled away, fairly fast, but not too fast, I left a cloud of whitish smoke behind. That hasn't happened in awhile.

I also checked the coolant level. I had previously filled it, recently, and it was clearly lower than I recall, so I filled that again too.

Like I said, it is running VERY well, so not sure there is much to do other than have fun and monitor it.

Let me know if you think the Marvel Mystery Oil can hurt.

BTW, I am using Penzoil 20w-50. It doesn't say mineral on it so I assume that it's not. Per my buddy, he said that sometimes the brand of oil can actually make a huge difference in oil consumption. Odd, to me.

Lastly, and off topic. I can't get the headrests to go up. I was told that it's just a matter of sheer bruit force, but I have pulled hard, and they are stuck in place. Any ideas?

Also, I find it interesting per the Road and Track figures that the 2800 cs has more hp than the 3.0, and the 3.0cs is supposedly 10 sec 0-60, when I have read elsewhere that it will do it in about 8 sec. No big deal, but those numbers are pretty fair off, and I think I ran 0-60 in about 9 sec yesterday, and wasn't pushing it.

Having so much FUN!

BTW, I can't figure out how to do my signature with all my cars. I know it should be easy, but looked at the UI in the admin and it is not clear. I am sure it is user error.

Scott
 
scottevest said:
TMarvel Mystery Oil in both the gas tank and some in the oil too. Do you agree?
do not pour any marvelous-promising-magical chemicals in your tanks ! at least that is what i would do !

He said it was burning some oil, but not a ton, and not to worry about it yet.
probably he is right

I did notice that after idling for about 3-5 minutes, when I pulled away, fairly fast, but not too fast, I left a cloud of whitish smoke behind. That hasn't happened in awhile. something is happening !

I also checked the coolant level. I had previously filled it, recently, and it was clearly lower than I recall, so I filled that again too.
ok, take it easy ! if you look to a liquid level in your car, you will see things, but that will be tricky.
Do the following: i assume that your coolant tank does not have a level-mark, so paint one, use one of those pens that you can not erase, then with the engine cold fill it exactly until it reaches the mark, start and drive the car, (when it is warm, the level will go higher than the mark, that is normal),
check it again when is cold. if you have to refill to reach the mark, then yes, you probably will have a leak into the engine (head gasket,...???), anyway, it seems strange to me because you mentioned good temperature readings in all conditions,...

BTW, I am using Penzoil 20w-50. It doesn't say mineral on it so I assume that it's not. Per my buddy, he said that sometimes the brand of oil can actually make a huge difference in oil consumption. Odd, to me.
here i can not find PENZOIL, i use CASTROL classic oil 20w50, directly imported from UK through promapac (it is superb)

Lastly, and off topic. I can't get the headrests to go up. I was told that it's just a matter of sheer bruit force, but I have pulled hard, and they are stuck in place. Any ideas?
try injecting a little of penetrating oil in spray and left it there for the night



Scott
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regards
.
 
as a kind of summary, i think your mechanic and your own feeling is right: drive the car, enjoy, and regularly check the two issues you have as homework: coolant and oil

if you do it as a normal procedure it will be fine:

before starting the engine, check the levels (if possible in the same place), and take note of what you find, clean the exhaust tail pipe with a cloth with a little gasoline or solvent

then warm up the car, yes i know, we are not used to that whit our modern electronic "refrigerators", but a classic car should be treated in a respectful way, when i drive my car i woke up 10 minutes earlier and after checking the levels, i warm up the car for 5 minutes before driving away

during the drive relax, and enjoy, if incidentaly you find an unusual cloud of smoke try to remember in which circumstances, and ...

try to record the noises that your car plays, that will be your pattern to which you will compare any change in the future

and then if possible when you arrive back home before stoping the engine make a short check list of the engine iddle, water temp., exhaust tail (wipe it with a white cloth and check the result)

and then the level checks of the next day...

probably this way you will finally know what is really happening to your car, and then you will go to the mechanic with all the info
regards
 
Warm up while idling--IMHO not so good!!

In addition to wasting fuel nothing is gained in longevity or reliability of the M-30 motor and it will deposit an unecessary amount of condensation inside your exhaust system. The M-30's are very robust internal combustion engines and enjoyed a life cycle spanning the years from 1968-2003--perhaps the longest life of any BMW engine.

According to my friend Hans Hermann--the Danish Engineer who started his engine design career with BMW--working for Von Falkenhausen and with Paul Rosche BMW's race engine guru of the earlier days. As a young engineer he was given the assignment of expanding the cylinder head design from 4 to 6 cylinders and he came up with the tri-spherical combustion chamber for its first installation in the 2500 and 2800 Sedans and the 2800 CS. It was a very fuel efficient design and gave the 2.8L power and fuel efficiency that bested the 3.0L design by around 3 MPG.

He had left Germany to come to the USA and in the years following and continuing to this day has carved out an extraordinary career in designing successful race and high performane engines for the auto industry and others.

When I asked him a similar question as to how best to warm up the engine--his response was to drive it--simply start and drive away using mild throttle until engine temps reach normal. Then full throttle is fine. A good practice is to drive about 15 miles to thoroughly warm all operating parts and to dry out the exhaust system. I did this for years driving from my home to office and my center resonator lasted almost 400, 000 miles.

BTW--the best temp to optimize combustion is a higher temparature not a lower one--so if your guage is showing 4 o'clock its running too cold--get a warmer thermostat for your altitude. I run the BLUMAX at around 1:45 and he likes that.

Also, i'm running BLUMAX on Castrol GTX 20-50--it's a mineral based oil--not a synthetic.
 
Unfortunately I have a sneaking suspicion that not all is well with your engine. The oil consumption is slightly on the high side which may very well be valve seals and lack of use, but the whitish smoke in the video is simply too much for too long for what I know these engines to do. The (albeit slow) loss of coolant as well.
To me that seems like a small crack in the head or at least a lightly blown head gasket.
The thing about the M30 engine is: It´s soo good, it´s till pretty darn great even when it´s ill. I´ve had mine running on 4.5 cylinders for a while and hardly noticed.... And it´ll still go a long way with a slightly cracked head, broken rings and messed up valve sems. The balance of the I6 and the exellent bottom end mean it´ll still pull great and run smoother than most anything else even when it´s knackered...

What to do depends entirely on what you want to do with the car in the future and what your personality is.
If you just want to drive it a few thousand miles a year and then sell it on in a few years, you can probably get by with slight tinkering. Maybe retorque the head bolts to reseat the gasket(risky if you really have a crack) have the valve seals changed (without lifting the head) etc.

Me, I can live with dents, scratches the wrong colour, faded paint, even some cosemtic rust. But chassis, brakes, engine, drivetrain, I need to know to be as good as new or better.
So if it we´re mine, I´d pull the motor and rebuild it.
And once you´ve got it out, might as well clean up the engine room, take a look at the tranny, see a 265 on ebay...
In a month the car may be in boxes. Beware of the slippery slope.
One thing though: There are no cheap fixes/free lunches. Forget about "mystery oil"

Sorry, don´t like spoiling the fun, but simply what I think.

However: Whatever you do, the car is worth it!

BTW, speaking of cars in boxes: Anyone heard anything from Malc lately...?

If it´s any consolation: I had to be towed today. Stranded on the autobahn with a starter that shorted and managed to mess up the ignition circuit as well. So much for my tip-top-shape engine.... Ouch
 
Tierfreund said:
Me, I can live with dents, scratches the wrong colour, faded paint, even some cosemtic rust. But chassis, brakes, engine, drivetrain, I need to know to be as good as new or better.
So if it we´re mine, I´d pull the motor and rebuild it.
And once you´ve got it out, might as well clean up the engine room, take a look at the tranny, see a 265 on ebay...
In a month the car may be in boxes. Beware of the slippery slope.
One thing though: There are no cheap fixes/free lunches. Forget about "mystery oil"

If it´s any consolation: I had to be towed today. Stranded on the autobahn with a starter that shorted and managed to mess up the ignition circuit as well. So much for my tip-top-shape engine.... Ouch
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+1

sorry to hear about your problems ! wish you a prompt recovery !
 
scottevest said:
Let me know if you think the Marvel Mystery Oil can hurt.

Also, I find it interesting per the Road and Track figures that the 2800 cs has more hp than the 3.0, and the 3.0cs is supposedly 10 sec 0-60, when I have read elsewhere that it will do it in about 8 sec. No big deal, but those numbers are pretty fair off, and I think I ran 0-60 in about 9 sec yesterday, and wasn't pushing it.
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I doubt Mystery oil would hurt your engine. Whether it would work marvels is another question. It smells nice (wintergreen?), and as a light oil, it tends to penetrate better than heavier motor oil and dislodge particulates - which may or may not be a good thing. I have used it and ATF on airtools and really gummed up (neglected) outboard motors. If you had sludged up hydraulic lifters or stuck piston rings, it might be a good thing. But I doubt you have stuck rings and your lifters do not function hydraulically - as they are solid.

http://boardreader.com/thread/additive_poll_Bob_Is_The_Oil_Guy_lcqoX19dmn.html
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2297582#Post2297582
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2330638
http://www.galactichonor.com/82-Does-Marvel-Mystery-Oil-Work.html


Regarding R&T's test figures, who really knows under what conditions they conducted the tests or, for that matter, exactly how they conducted the tests? Same is true for many of the other contemporary magazine tests.

Suffice it to say, we are not privy to exactly how each car was treated/tested, each vehicle's mileage/condition when tested, or who might have ridden the clutch prior to any test run. Also consider that the engines had different advertised compression 9:1 vs. 8.3:1. One used premium leaded while the other evidently drank regular. While the 2800 produced more hp, the 3 liter produced more torque at lower revs, suggesting it might be better behaved at low speed takeoffs. The rear axle ratios were different and the gross vehicle weights were different. The 2800 is listed as having a 17:1 lb/hp ratio vs. 20:1 lb/hp ratio for the 3 liter.

These test figures are far from clinical measurements, and at best, they are broad guidelines to be discussed over Cardinal beer. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Regarding your headrests, each seat has two posts that can easily become rusted to the guides (no 8 in the diagram). I have seen a few stuck headrests move with a light amount of wiggling, a careful squirt of penetrating oil and the use of a rubber mallet. Others have required far more persuasive measures, e.g., removing the seat backs to expose the guides.
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8951)

25.png
 
Headrests

I had the same problem when I bought my coupe. Somone on the forum recommended PB Blaster. It did help for the passenger side, tho I had used WD-40 prior to. Driver side, different story. Could not make it budge even after using all sorts of leverage techniques. Decided I didn't want to cause any more damage after cracking the chromed plastic inserts underneath. My guess is that the driver's side for my car was exposed to the elements much more often & had melded down below. At the time, I do recall a member recounting how he removed the seat, hung it upside down from a sturdy branch & than grabbed the head rest using his full body weight.
 
Some pictures of my car and information from mechanic

I called the mechanic that worked on the car before I bought it. He said that the valve guide seals probably need to be replaced- need valve job. He said this is very normal for a car of this age, and that nothing is wrong. He said also that "blow by" is normal on my car. I am not sure what this means, but sounds good. I sent him a link to this forum and asked him to weigh in.

Heres the pictures: https://picasaweb.google.com/scottevest/BMW30WithPoodles
 
i think its a pretty car, in spite of the big bumpers. might be something about the color scheme for an owner named scott. i have the same scheme ... just a '71 instead of a '74.

scott
 
deQuincey said:
beautiful car and beautiful colour
are you happy with the US "monster bumpers" ?:-D
regards
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In picture 9 I see a poodle driving the car. To let my dog drive the car I would also want big bumpers...
 
I'm thinking like some of the others that it may just be a tired old engine, but, unless I've missed someone else talking about it you might check your brake fluid level. I really don't think its the problem, but it will burn white-looking smoke and not have much of a smell. The brake master cylinder can leak into the booster and eventually fill up enough so the vacuum line from the manifold will pull the fluid into the intake and burn in the engine. Usually, it takes driving over a bump or into a driveway to splash the fluid around enough to get pulled in. It can also make a HUGE cloud of smoke. Ask me how I know. ;-)

Dan
 
I figured out how to do my signature

I added this at the bottom but it was too long. ;)

Past cars in order (most recent first): Jeep Wrangled 4 door, Suzuki Intrudee 1500, Hummer H2, Mini Cooper S (heavily modified), New VW Beetle, BMW 635csi, Mazda Miata, BMW 325 cab, Alfa Romeo GTV6, Nissan Maxima, VW Sciroco, Mazda Rx7, and VW Golf Cab (my first car)
 
Brake Fluid and more information

Dan, I will look at this carefully but don't think it is the case as you suspected. Yesterday, while driving at low speeds in stop and go traffic, it emitted a fair amount of smoke every time I came to a complete stop and accelerated from a light, just like the day before. This differed from my experience of long drives along the mountain highway. It seems to happen only with prolonged city driving, and only upon acceleration, not deceleration, and only in first gear off the line, as far as I can see.

Not sure if that helps to solve the problem. The mechanic that worked on the car for the last 20+ years swears that the engine is solid but may need a valve job, that's all.

dang said:
I'm thinking like some of the others that it may just be a tired old engine, but, unless I've missed someone else talking about it you might check your brake fluid level. I really don't think its the problem, but it will burn white-looking smoke and not have much of a smell. The brake master cylinder can leak into the booster and eventually fill up enough so the vacuum line from the manifold will pull the fluid into the intake and burn in the engine. Usually, it takes driving over a bump or into a driveway to splash the fluid around enough to get pulled in. It can also make a HUGE cloud of smoke. Ask me how I know. ;-)

Dan
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