My E9 burns about 1 quart of oil every tank of gas -should i use Moly E.P.?

[deQuincey]

.... swears that the engine is solid but may need a valve job, that's all.

hi

...the engine is solid anyway, but that does not mean that you need a valve job, or a cylinder job !

please check your fluids, and that will give you the level of the damage ! that will be definitive ! if it is oil or coolant and in which extent is the case

anyway, if your smoke is ONLY in accelerations,...can i deduce that valve guides and or valve cap grommets are not responible ??, i bet on the cylinder rings !

and that mechanic of the car for 20years, he can tell you ONLY that ? i would use "third degree" with him, ha, ha

and the engines is still solid ! it is only a little bit old, and that is a "plus" :-D

 

[scottevest]

Mystery continues...

Firstly, thanks again for all the advice. I have not check the fluids today, but will tomorrow.

I just took car out for a quick spin, about the exact same distance/time/weather as last night, 6pm, 2 miles or so, round trip, 70 degrees, 5-6 stop and goes. Whereas last night the entire way home, I noticed smoke every time I accelerated from first gear, tonight was just the opposite: no smoke at all.

Tonight, I did not warm up the car at all. On the way out, before the car was warm, I noticed only very slight smoke, almost none, and when accelerating past 4,000rpm, it had a hesitation at about 4100rpm, which I chalked up to not being warm and expected, but caught me by surprise nonetheless. On the way home, I tried to engage the choke before leaving by fully depressing the gas peddle, but it did not seem to engage at all since no noticeable impact. The car drove amazing on the way home, all 1 mile but 5-6 start stops. No smoke. The car was slightly above the blue line on oil temp, although it had been sitting for over an hour during dinner.

Is it possible that all of this has something to do with my inability to set the chokes properly, and all I need to do is study the owner's manual??? I don't think it can be that simple, but just saying... something doesn't make sense. Engine drives too good for there to be something seriously wrong, and blowing smoke problem seems intermittent at best.

Not sure if this helps or not. Getting compression numbers this week and base-lining all the key fluid levels including brake, coolant, and oil. I am going to also try oil additive MMO. I don't think any harm can come of it.

Otherwise, seems next step is to get a valve job, although I am not sure there is a mechanic I could trust to do this locally. Is this something I should bring to a BMW dealer to do?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Stevehose]

When your engine is warm you shouldn't be able to affect the chokes at all - they will be off, or rather, open all the way. To confirm this, with the engine cold (after at least 12 hours to cool off), take your air cleaner(s) off - do you have webers or stock zeniths? - to expose the carburetors. Press the accelerator to the floor - when cold this will engage the chokes - noticeable by watching the choke butterfly of each carb move horizontal and almost close off the barrel (you can stand with the door open and press your foot on the gas pedal and peer into the engine compartement and watch this as you press the pedal). Start the car - as the engine warms up the choke flaps should gradually move back (preferably at the same rate) until they are straight up and down - allowing as much air into the carb as possible. Once warmed up, these flaps should stay in the open vertical position and no amount of accelerator movement should change their position. Try this and report back. If you do your additive, run it for a 100 miles or so then change the oil with fresh Castrol 20W50. Ideally you don't want the additive - just good clean oil.

 

[deQuincey]

When your engine is warm you shouldn't be able to affect the chokes at all - they will be off, or rather, open all the way. To confirm this, with the engine cold (after at least 12 hours to cool off), take your air cleaner(s) off - do you have webers or stock zeniths? - to expose the carburetors. Press the accelerator to the floor - when cold this will engage the chokes - noticeable by watching the choke butterfly of each carb move horizontal and almost close off the barrel (you can stand with the door open and press your foot on the gas pedal and peer into the engine compartement and watch this as you press the pedal). Start the car - as the engine warms up the choke flaps should gradually move back (preferably at the same rate) until they are straight up and down - allowing as much air into the carb as possible. Once warmed up, these flaps should stay in the open vertical position and no amount of accelerator movement should change their position. Try this and report back. If you do your additive, run it for a 100 miles or so then change the oil with fresh Castrol 20W50. Ideally you don't want the additive - just good clean oil.

+1

this full procedure can be seen in the video of my cold start of my engine that i proposed several posts ago, i attach it again at the end of this post

when i press the acc pedal you can see both butterflies closing simultaneously, keep you eye on them for the next 30 seconds to see what happens

they must close completely, then when you start the engine, is the carbs are correctly tuned up, you will see them opening exactly 3mm, (in the video you can see how the buterflies move exactly the same angle when the suction caused by the engine moves them)

in time 3:35 you can see the openings of 3mm

then when you press the accel again when the car is warm you will see the butterflies opening completely, you can follow also this process in the video, and the iddle falls until 980rpm´s


------------------------------------
click in the photo to see the video

 

[SKIP]

Burning oil

sounds like the bottom end, which is pretty rare with bmw engines. It may have been run low on oil in the past and scored up the cylinders, or maybe has more miles on it than bluemax! ;-)

no way. It's the rings. Just run, straight, 40 wt. Oil.

 

[scottevest]

More data, but nothing learned yet

So, this is what I know:

-Shop did not check compression. They are going to test on Tuesday, and I will report back. So frustrating because I asked them to do this and they said they did, but when I asked for numbers they admitted they didn't do it.

-no loss of any brake fluid

-coolant level appears to be running fine, no changes

-down another 1/2 notch on oil consumption with not much driving, perhaps 1/2 tank or so. Was at 3/4 full on the dip stick last time i checked, and now at 1/2 way mark.

-smoke is completely intermittent. NO patterns, so frustrating. No longer smoking a lot when starting up recently, but then I have not purposely engaged the choke as before and started cold.

-sometimes when I accelerate from 1st i see: no smoke, a little smoke, a lot of smoke, with no clear patterns as to when I can see more or less. The only time I think I am assured of seeing smoke is after I let it idle for a bit, 3-5 minutes, and pull away - stop and go traffic at lights city driving.

Otherwise car runs great.

I lost, don't ask how, 1/2 of the license bracket. Does anyone know where I can get one?

 

[Stevehose]

Front or rear? If front I think I remember Murray (BLUMAX) has one available.

I lost, don't ask how, 1/2 of the license bracket. Does anyone know where I can get one?

 

[Stevehose]

Time to find a new shop! Or go to Sears and buy a compression meter and DIY - it's easy.

-Shop did not check compression. They are going to test on Tuesday, and I will report back. So frustrating because I asked them to do this and they said they did, but when I asked for numbers they admitted they didn't do it.

 

[Cornice Jumper]

My old 530i burned a quart of oil between every tank fill up as well. I ran it like this for 3 years. When I finally pulled the engine and replaced it, there was one broken oil ring, the other two rings on that piston were fine. I don't remember checking my own compression, but it is possible that the compression may not be that bad and you can still have a broken oil ring on the bottom...

 

[scottevest]

rear

rear
but likely front too now that i think of it

Front or rear? If front I think I remember Murray (BLUMAX) has one available.

 

[DaveG]

There has also been reference to the ring lands wearing, as well, resulting in oil consumption with good compressions.....
DaveG

 

[blumax]

Changed topic--license plate bracket--had front no rear

It's gone!

 

[61porsche]

Carbs and Heat/ Cold

My observations are that when starting from cold the fuel is in large droplets. Some of that fuel puddles in the first part of the manifold where by there is a trough.( part where the water hoses are located) It takes a few moments for the engine to catch up and burn this extra fuel. Add to the mix a choke, etc. and the optimum situation goes downhill fast.

After a run, the temps spike when you shut off the engine. (Turn the key back on, but not to start, and watch the guage.) If your fuel level is on the optimum side percolation occurs, fuel comes out, lies in wait in the manifold depression. If you are in a hot climate, stop but don't turn off the engine. Let it idle shortly to stabilize the temps a bit. There's some BMW literature somewhere when heads were cracking from reactors saying such.

Too much fuel can wash the cylinders of oil momentarily and end up as a by product of the exhaust.

Lots of short trips without a good run once in a while contribute to oil/ fuel being not completely burned, smoking exhaust, etc. Junk in your junk.

Don't ever run your car if the carb starts flooding much over a little drip is my two cents for the day.

Part of the joys of carbs.

For Fi, the symtom would be a cold start valve stuck open or slow to close. The injectors close or don't.

Between the two is the difference in MPG

 

[Arde]

...

Otherwise, seems next step is to get a valve job, although I am not sure there is a mechanic I could trust to do this locally. Is this something I should bring to a BMW dealer to do?

Thanks again for all your help.

May I suggest your next fun trip be 700 miles to California. While you get a chance to surf in Santa Cruz, one of the three or four Bay Area E9 pros will straighten that motor. The beach in Aptos is great for dogs by the way.

 

[deQuincey]

some questions :

Carbs and Heat/ Cold

Don't ever run your car if the carb starts flooding much over a little drip is my two cents for the day.
why do you say this ? because is dangerous ? explosion ? fire ?

For Fi, the symtom would be a cold start valve stuck open or slow to close. The injectors close or don't.
you mean the iddle valve (solenoid) ??

thanks

 

[61porsche]

Flooding- running with heavy flooding can wash the cylinders of oil. This in turn can damage the rings resulting in a loss of cylinder pressure due to ring seal in short order. It can thin your oil; not good for valvetrain, bearings, etc..it's better to stop, pop the top of the carb off, fix the float; usually just hung up open.

If you notice a big drop in power, all three cylinders on that carb can go out. That big 6 can run on three, but your foot is going to be deep in it.( pedal halfway.) It also can wash junk off the valves and into the bores causing the opposite problem- stuck rings, junk on valve seat, etc. Stop, fix the float.

If you run carbs, always... carry a screwdriver, allen wrench, and a 13mm wrench or crescent. Feild stripping a carb is better than an engine rebuild. You don't have to remove the carb from the manifold and it shouldn't take long.

This isn't a normal occurrence on Zeniths. But if it happens and your far from home... stop. Around the block, sure. Head for the barn.

No on the solenoids. Usually they stay closed if malfunctioning and you would know it by the engine running noticeably rough. The idle circuit might have a little fuel left if jammed opened but when the engine shuts off the fuel does too. Biggest problem with solenoids is the wire falling off or being accidently hit.

 

[scottevest]

Update- after about 300 miles-anti-freeze level is down by 35% but oil holding better

Update- after about 300 miles-anti-freeze level is down by 35% but oil holding better after adding Miracle Oil additive, but still too soon to tell if oil is better after adding.

Still blows alot of white smoke especially when cold first thing in am, then no smoke for most part thereafter. Smoke is not entirely predictable though. Always white smoke accelerating typically from first gear only, never down shifting.

I had a "good" mechanic look at it, and thought the oil problem was the valve guides. He said it's no big deal so long as I monitor closely and add oil as needed.

Car runs VERY strong. Love it

Brake fluid unchanged

If all I have to do is monitor oil and antifreeze, it's no big deal, but antifreeze level dropping seems odd. I am going to review earlier messages below.

Still too early to make determination for sure.

Thanks for all your help

 

[rsporsche]

white smoke? what is the color of your coolant? any foam on the dip stick or brown color / oil in the coolant? kind of sounds to me like you might have a crack in the head that connects the coolant passage to the oil passage. i had this on my bavaria years ago.

 

[scottevest]

Reply

white smoke? what is the color of your coolant? any foam on the dip stick or brown color / oil in the coolant? kind of sounds to me like you might have a crack in the head that connects the coolant passage to the oil passage. i had this on my bavaria years ago.

Yes white smoke
From memory, green coolant
No visible foam on dipstick or brown color oil in coolant from memory

I will check closer tomorrow

 

[Stevehose]

It almost seems like you could have both - worn valves and a cracked head or head gasket - I had this symptom on my first coupe - the reason it stops smoking after it warms up is that the crack seals shut from the metal expansion and opens back up after it cools back down. If you're losing coolant and it's not leaking out then it's being burned in the cylinder. In the morning while it is smoking a lot put a paper towel in the way of the steam until damp - then see if smells like coolant.

white smoke? what is the color of your coolant? any foam on the dip stick or brown color / oil in the coolant? kind of sounds to me like you might have a crack in the head that connects the coolant passage to the oil passage. i had this on my bavaria years ago.