Scheel 401S Seats

[Maxthe222]

Hi there,

I've been trying to do my homework on these Scheel seats to ensure these are the correct, original seats for my car, and this site seems to have a lot of folks who are very knowledgeable about the 70-80's Scheel seats, as I believe they came in E9's.

These are reportedly 1979 Scheel 401S seats, and I'd like to just make sure that's exactly what these are. I've seen some of them have a tag that says "TYP: 4/01/S" on them, but these don't have that tag, just the one pictured.

Does Scheel still make parts for these seats, or new compliance tags for them?

Thanks,
-Max

 

[Rouge]

Je pense que les 401 sont postérieurs à la production des E9.
D'après mes informations Alpina proposais en option les Scheel 400.
Mais il y a sur ce forum des personnes qui connaissent ce sujet mieux que moi.

 

[Maxthe222]

Je pense que les 401 sont postérieurs à la production des E9.
D'après mes informations Alpina proposais en option les Scheel 400.
Mais il y a sur ce forum des personnes qui connaissent ce sujet mieux que moi.

I'm not very familiar with them, it was just from some basic research, that could be the case. I'm not sure what cars they came factory in really

 

[Clubsport_CSi]

These very seats should not have a production date before 1988. Because Scheel-Mann was founded in 1988 after Scheel was bought by Greiner. See logo and tag.

 

[Maxthe222]

These very seats should not have a production date before 1988. Because Scheel-Mann was founded in 1988 after Scheel was bought by Greiner. See logo and tag.

Arrrrrrrr. If that's the case, these are not the original seats, and not correct for this application. I may re-trim them or customize them to suit the rest of the interior. It's unlikely I'll find another set in Australia that are early 70's dated. Thanks

 

[Clubsport_CSi]

If acceptable for you, you can adopt some features period correct; e.g., ask Gerrit if he has some of his period correct Scheel buttons to put them in place of the Scheel-Mann label...

 

[Maxthe222]

If acceptable for you, you can adopt some features period correct; e.g., ask Gerrit if he has some of his period correct Scheel buttons to put them in place of the Scheel-Mann label...

Might be a good option to ensure they're period correct. Does the tag have a date code on it? Also, are these 100% the 401S model?

 

[Clubsport_CSi]

Best to wait for Gerrit or other experts to join the discussion; maybe I am also wrong with interpreting the button as it is quite complex with the old logo, switch to Scheel, switch to Scheel-Mann etc.
The button I referred to is the Scheel logo on the backrest; not the type label.

Have a look here:
401

 

[Rouge]

Je pense que la datation faites par clubsport CSI est la bonne et le bouton SCHEELMAN ne trompe pas.
Il existe un fournisseur en Australie du bouton de type carré SCHEEL conforme a celui qui est contemporain de la E9
J'en avais commandé un jeu il y a quelques années.

Scheel seat badge BMW CSL PORSCHE NEW VW Mercedes Special Sitze button AUDI

NEW Scheel seat badge BMW CSL - PORSCHE These are NOT stickers- These are the actual badge with Silver printed logo, complete with new fastening washers & split pins.

globaltrim.com.au

I think the dating provided by Clubsport CSI is correct, and the SCHEELMAN button is a reliable indicator.
There is a supplier in Australia that offers the square SCHEEL button, which matches the one from the E9's era.
I ordered a set a few years ago.

 

[Markos]

These very seats should not have a production date before 1988. Because Scheel-Mann was founded in 1988 after Scheel was bought by Greiner. See logo and tag.

Scheel partnered with Mann starting in 1975. Greiner GMbH purchased the company in 1987. This is documented on their website.

Our History

scheel-mann.com

Here is a set of Scheel 100’s with the Scheel-Mann logo.

 

[Clubsport_CSi]

Hi Markos, I had a look at the Scheel-Mann USA website before and also recognized this. I hope it is not offending but I am not convinced that all information presented there is correct. This starts with the acquisition by Greiner which is dated to 1988 on the Greiner homepage. The image of the year 1975 seat is obviously taken from stance works...
As mentioned, I am not an expert for the full Scheel history, which is complex with ASS existing in parallel and I do not know exact timeframes for the use of each individual button. But all seats I own myself from this period or I know of did have the square button with the double S... I would be really interested from when the orher Scheel button was used...

 

[Markos]

Hi Markos, I had a look at the Scheel-Mann USA website before and also recognized this. I hope it is not offending but I am not convinced that all information presented there is correct. This starts with the acquisition by Greiner which is dated to 1988 on the Greiner homepage. The image of the year 1975 seat is obviously taken from stance works...
As mentioned, I am not an expert for the full Scheel history, which is complex with ASS existing in parallel and I do not know exact timeframes for the use of each individual button. But all seats I own myself from this period or I know of did have the square button with the double S... I would be really interested from when the orher Scheel button was used...

@Clubsport_CSi,

I’m no expert either but will go on a deep dive to clarify any understanding that I had. 1975 was in my brain and I even threw a red flag on the seats pictured earlier. At any rate there are some experts like LarsAlpina on BMW2002FAQ that know the history well, but first hand accounts and photos here may also help with the timeline for those interested. Sorry to hijack the thread. I don’t have much else to add.

The seat photo is from the 1974 Batmobile that Ron Perry Sold on BringaTrailer. I pulled the photo from BaT. I’m not asserting that they left BMW that way, but the Scheel 100 isn’t a late 80’s seat.

I agree about marketing pages. Momo’s stated history with Moretti making early wheels is missing/off for example. However, not off by a decade.

It’s hard to find good ads with dates unfortunately. The easiest way to confirm is with some 70’s magazines. I tend to only buy pre-1975 magazines though. This seller who has multiple Scheel-Mann ads list this ad as 1982. Either way, note the Scheel button with a Scheel-Mann print. That alone should be interesting. Also note the lever style tilt as most seats went to a twist knob by the 80’s.

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_ssn=babu-online&store_name=babuonline

Then there is @Drew Gregg who asserts that he bought his scheel-mann seats in 1984. Drew is active and meticulous so I don’t doubt his statement.

S

Thread 'FS: Scheel Mann Sport Seats'

May 27, 2022

A friend of mine in OC - CA has a Beautiful pair of Scheel Mann manual sport seats. These have been refurbished by Tony Garcia of Autobahn Interiors located in San Diego. They have new foam, bottom webbing suspension rebuilt. They would look great in a e3 or e9 Coupe. $1750

Scheel Mann Seats - auto parts - by owner - vehicle automotive sale

This is an excellent pair of Scheel-Mann sport seats. They were recovered to the highest standards by Autobahn Interiors in San Diego. All foam on the side bolsters, seat pan and seat back are firm....

orangecounty.craigslist.org

• speedracer
• Replies: 12
• Forum: Parts For Sale and Wanted

There are of other scheel-mann 501’s by reputable sellers. I don’t know when the 501 ended but I wouldn’t assume that these are late 80’s seats.

Coupe King:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305341569500

 

[Clubsport_CSi]

I think what we can say for sure is that the seats must be 1975 the earliest - as Scheel teamed up with Mann in 1975 and the KBA sticker 90040 has Scheel-Mann-Sitze GmbH as company name on it; it was Scheel Schalensitze GmbH before.
I have not been aware that they used this name already that early, sorry for my mistake.
I will try to find someone at Greiner who might be able to help with a time chart

This one is nice:

 

[Markos]

I think what we can say for sure is that the seats must be 1975 the earliest - as Scheel teamed up with Mann in 1975 and the KBA sticker 90040 has Scheel-Mann-Sitze GmbH as company name on it; it was Scheel Sportsitze before.
I have not been aware that they used this name already that early, sorry for my mistake.
I will try to find someone at Greiner who might be able to help with a time chart

This one is nice:
View attachment 222474

Thanks! Yeah if you can make a domestic call to them and get some clarification from someone outside of the marketing department had would be cool.

This seller said that they contact Scheel and got a “post-1975” response:

 

[Maxthe222]

I am even more confused does this mean these could indeed be correct period 1979 seats? Are they definitely 401S? I'm glad I asked here as it seems I've come to the right place for information on them!

I have begun to carefully clean, re-grease and re-assemble the seats now. I tried looking for an assembly or service manual for them, and couldn't really find anything. I believe I've got the reclining mechanism working correctly, but what exactly is this wire by this handle for? How does it attach?

In addition, there's these large metal levers on each side of the seat base. What do these do?

 

[Clubsport_CSi]

I am a 302 fan and could help more with them...
It is hard for me to differentiate between 401 / 401S... - but there are nice details here (although in German):
Scheels on 2002
And you have the KBA number 90040 which would be easy to assign to a specific model for an expert.

Do you have pictures from the side covers? Maybe I missed them...

 

[Markos]

You kind find something here. Sadly Lars Alpina hasn’t been on the 2002 board in 4 years. I’m not sure what his status is.

 

[Maxthe222]

Yes, attached. I have figured out how everything works and how to reassemble them and they now seem to work nice. The small wire is held in tension by the plastic cover. I was surprised, I feel like that would have broken the plastic with age, but it seems to hold the tilt adjust handle firmly. I have also worked out that the large metal rod along the bottom is so you can release the seats to fold forward without changing the tilt adjustment, so when you rock the seat back it keeps the angle you have set. Nifty! I had cleaned out all of the old grease in the coil spring, and recoated it with white lithium WD-40 grease before putting the covers back on. All finished! You will have to forgive how dirty the seats look, the cats won't stop sleeping on them